virtualbox.org

erdeslawe wrote:You are obviously tying yourself in knots with the terminology.

I appreciate the admonishment, since I'm only trying to do something trivially simple, which is:
a. Install the right version of Oracle VirtualBox software onto my 64-bit AMD-CPU Windows 10 Pro host machine
b. Download the right verison of the latest LTS Ubuntu iso
c. Set up VirtualBox so that it runs that version of Ubuntu

Hence, I'm faithfully trying to understand why mpack keeps sending me to his post which starts off with the word "template" as the key to the main issue as to why the installed VirtualBox Wizard has no option to set up a 64-bit Ubuntu as the guest operating system.

erdeslawe wrote:Put simply 'Template' is what you create by making the appropriate selections when using the VirtualBox Wizard to build your Virtual Machine.

Thanks for explaining that the "template" is simply the "overall setup" of the VirtualBox after making selections.

I'm sure it's obvious from the very first post that there is NO OPTION in the VirtualBox Wizard to create a 64-bit template (the only available options are 32-bit templates), so, that was known from the start. (BTW, the word "template" doesn't show up even once in the VirtualBox software, AFAICT).

In fact, that's the entire problem.
The problem is: Why aren't there any options to create 64-bit templates in the VirtualBox Wizard shown in all my detailed screenshots?

erdeslawe wrote: What you are finding with your Google searching is more about installing Pre-built Templates:

The search for templates was a bust, as you accurately noted. The word should never be used with a noob. If I was in charge of documentation, I would make it a rule to never use that word until it was defined as you defined it above, which is that a template is simply the setup after you've gotten the thing to work.

If this word "template" even shows up in the VirtualBox GUI, I can't find it.

erdeslawe wrote: Try this simple step-by-step: h t t p : / / talesfromthedatacenter(dot)com/archives/232

OK. Going there now... since what I want to do is so super trivial that it's crazy that it's this difficult to do something this simple.

The problem is: Why aren't there any options to create 64-bit templates in the VirtualBox Wizard shown in all my detailed screenshots?

As was sayed often now, because virtualization is not available on your system.
As long amd-v is stolen by another process or feature on the host, you never will get 64bit systems for choosing!
64bit gusests only available, if vt-x/amd-v is usuable by vbox.

The "template" is chosen here (main Virtualbox window -> New) Type and Version are the template dropdowns. If you're trying an Ubuntu guest, choose Linux for the Type and Ubuntu (32-bit) or (64-bit) for the version. ("Template" may have been the wording from an earlier version that has been changed since then, but this is what "template" is referring to.)

If you only have (32-bit) choices, then VT-x/AMD-V is not available for Virtualbox to use.
Confirm that your Windows 10 Pro has hyper-v turned off (Hyper-V is Microsoft's virtual machine system, comes default to ON in 10 Pro and higher - google for how to turn it off)

Confirm that both your motherboard BIOS and CPU have VT-x/AMD-V.

Confirm that after turning on VT-x/AMD-v in the motherboard BIOS you turned off and unplugged your PC for a minute then turned it back on,

If you have confirmed all of the above, then some other program is taking VT-x/AMD-V before Virtualbox can get to it. The recommended tutorial I have a 64bit host, but can't install 64bit guests has other suggestions besides the above which take VT-x/AMD-V before Virtualbox can use it. You will have to look around for what other programs take VT-x/AMD-V.

FWIW I run Virtualbox 5.1.6 (so far) on Windows 10 Pro, Anniversary edition just fine and get 32 and 64-bit guests. The issue is not with Virtualbox but is with something else on your PC.

scottgus1 wrote:The "template" is chosen here (main Virtualbox window -> New)

Thank you for that pulldown explaining that the template is simply the "setup" after you click the boxes labeled:
1. Name (in my case, that's "ubuntu", which was shown in all my screenshots, but it could be anything)
2. Type (in my case, that's "Linux", which was shown in all my screenshots, because I am trying to use Ubuntu as the Guest OS)
3. Version (in my case, that's what this question is all about, since the only versions available in the VirtualBox GUI are 32-bit, as in "Ubuntu (32-bit)"

We don't need to belabor the issue, but this use of the word "template" with noobs is very basic DOCUMENTATION 101 faux pas.

If I were running the doc department, I'd forbid the use of any keyword that doesn't show up at all in the software GUI.


Nowhere (that I know of) does the word "template" show up in the GUI (as far as I can tell).
Therefore, use of the word "template" breaks the canonical rule of "Documentation 101" which dictate that we use the words that show up on the GUI.

Anyway, the definition of "template" is just water under the bridge at this point.

Thanks for explaining that a template is just what results after you make those selections, where my entire problem is that the 64-bit selection isn't an option of the VirtualBox Gui, so I'm asking how to debug why 64-bit options don't exist in my VirtualBox GUI.

scottgus1 wrote:Type and Version are the template dropdowns. If you're trying an Ubuntu guest, choose Linux for the Type and Ubuntu (32-bit) or (64-bit) for the version. ("Template" may have been the wording from an earlier version that has been changed since then, but this is what "template" is referring to.)

That's exactly what I am trying to do, and have been trying to do, and which was completely documented in the first post.
There is no option in my VirtualBox GUI for 64-bit anything.
That was shown in all my screenshots.

That's the problem as I see it.
Why doesn't VirtualBox show ANY options for any 64-bit GUIs in the "Create Virtual Machine" setup pulldown labeled "Version"?

Especially since I triple checked that AMD-v is ENABLED in the bios (I would snap a photo but I can't post screenshots yet anyway without having to munge the URI). I also triple checked that Hyper-V is not checked in the Windows 10 Pro operating system.

scottgus1 wrote:If you only have (32-bit) choices, then VT-x/AMD-V is not available for Virtualbox to use.

This seems to be the real genesis of the problem.
I have an AMD CPU which has AMD-v capabilities (as previously noted) and I have definitely set the BIOS to ENABLE "Virtualization Technology".

But, apparently, "something" else is preventing 64-bit selections in the VirtualBox "Create Virtual Machine" setup pulldown labeled "Version".

scottgus1 wrote: Confirm that your Windows 10 Pro has hyper-v turned off (Hyper-V is Microsoft's virtual machine system, comes default to ON in 10 Pro and higher - google for how to turn it off)

As stated in multiple posts prior, and as screenshotted (but I understand that you can't see the screenshots because I had to obfuscate the URLs), Hyper-V is not checked on my WIndows 10 Pro 64-bit Operating System.

scottgus1 wrote:Confirm that both your motherboard BIOS and CPU have VT-x/AMD-V.

Hmmm... Do I really need to worry about Intel VT-x if I know the CPU has the AMD-v?

scottgus1 wrote:Confirm that after turning on VT-x/AMD-v in the motherboard BIOS you turned off and unplugged your PC for a minute then turned it back on,

Yes. As I explained in gory detail in previous posts, I tripled checked that "Virtualization Technology" was ENABLED in the BIOS, and I rebooted and pulled the plug on the desktop and waited for all the internal LEDs to go out (which took a couple of minutes due to capacitors probably in the Power Supply).

scottgus1 wrote:If you have confirmed all of the above, then some other program is taking VT-x/AMD-V before Virtualbox can get to it. The recommended tutorial ... I have a 64bit host, but can't install 64bit guests has other suggestions besides the above which take VT-x/AMD-V before Virtualbox can use it. You will have to look around for what other programs take VT-x/AMD-V.

This must be the problem.
The problem with the folks repeatedly telling me to go to the suggested FAQ is that the FAQ is not actionable on this topic.
As I stated in a prior post, it's not easy to figure out what those "other things" are, and I do realize that it's not something that has anything directly to do with VirtualBox software.

So, what should be trivial, isn't.

What is NEEDEd is so simple that it's shocking.

What is needed is an actionable TEST for the things that can block VirtualBox from listing any 64-bit options in the "Version" pulldown in the "Create Virtual Machine" wizard.

As noted prior, I found and downloaded a test, from Microsoft, but it only runs on Enterprise machines.

Microsoft wrote: Use this tool to see if your hardware is ready for Device Guard and Credential Guard.
You can also use this to enable Device Guard or Credential Guard.
This tool is a Windows PowerShell script that needs to run with elevated permissions.
It will work with Windows 10 Enterprise edition (beginning with version 1607) and Windows Server 2016.
You can use this tool in the following ways:
Check if the device can run Device Guard or Credential Guard
Check if the device is compatible with the Hardware Lab Kit tests that are ran by partners <=== you gotta love their grammar!
Enable and disable Device Guard or Credential Guard
Check the status of Device Guard or Credential Guard on the device

scottgus1 wrote:FWIW I run Virtualbox 5.1.6 (so far) on Windows 10 Pro, Anniversary edition just fine and get 32 and 64-bit guests. The issue is not with Virtualbox but is with something else on your PC.

I'm going to agree with you here, and I do appreciate that you're trying to help, where the problem is that "something" is preventing VirtualBox from showing 64-bit "Versions" in the VirtualBox "Create Virtual Machine" setup pulldown labeled "Version".

All I ever wanted was a tutorial that works, so, I will read the links you sent because the FAQ that I was sent to was great, but it wasn't even close to actionable, whereas tutorials are actionable.

PS: Sorry for all the edits. It's miserable to ensure that nothing is interpreted as a U R L ...

There is no tutorial, since you haven't a vbox problem, you have a problem on your host!
On your host is a software or service running (in most cases a antivirus soulution), which is using amd-v, so vbox can't use it and so you won't get any 64bit choices in the setup wizard.

Thanks for the confirmations! (I realize you may have stated all of these items before, but, respectfully, you need a TL;DR version for your posts.)

Yes it is either VT-x or AMD/V. You have an AMD processor, it's called AMD/V. You don't need ot worry about VT-x. (Two dofferent names for the same thing)

The now-pertinent part of the "no 64-bit guests" tutorial is:

make sure that no other host apps are already using VT-x/AMD-v. The usual culprits are system level debuggers, other VM platforms, and some resident anti-virus applications....Windows hosts with an EFI BIOS, DeviceGuard or CredentialGuard

I do see that DeviceGuard or CredentialGuard have been mentioned before but I do not know if you were able to confirm whether any of these are present on your PC and have been turned off if possible.

I seem to remember reading that development environments, like Visual Studio, may also try to use VT-x.

I have had Bitdefender, an anti-virus, take VT-x on my laptop - uninstalled & VT-x was available again for Virtualbox

There is nothing else we as fellow Virtualbox users can do to help you clear up the AMD/V issue with your PC. You have some program that is taking this before Virtualbox can use it. There is no diagnosing program that I know if - you will just have to experiment - uninstall AV, other progs, etc. until 64-bit returns. (I would recommend a disk image backup of your host disk if you try this.)

We both posted at the same time (where my posts take longer because of the extensive edits to remove any indicator of a U R L).

towo2099 wrote:There is no tutorial, since you haven't a vbox problem, you have a problem on your host!

I understand exactly what you're saying, which is that it's not a VirtualBox problem.
Having worked in software for decades, I completely understand that statement.

And has having been on forums for as long as forums have existed (Usenet prior to that, BBs prior to that), I also appreciate that nobody has to answer my questions, so I appreciate the advice (which I give to others on topics that I know a lot about).

Right now I'm a noob.

However, having written thousands of apnotes, therefore, I disagree that there can't be a tutorial that is ACTIONABLE for testing whether a machine is ready to run VirtualBox software.

The FAQ that I was sent to wasn't even close to actionable. '
I realize the guys who write the VirtualBox FAQs aren't experts on all the DEPENDENCIES out there for VirtualBox; however, each of us noobs who runs into a problem HAS to solve it somehow; so we should all do our part to add to the TRIBAL KNOWLEDGE of that FAQ.

That FAQ requires ACTIONABLE methods to determine if the DEPENDENCIES are met for VirtualBox to have as a selection, 64-bit "Versions" in the "Create Virtual Machine" wizard.

What's obviously lacking, and which I will write, is an ACTIONABLE way to test for the DEPENDENCIES that VirtualBox has, in order to display 64-bit choices on the VirtualBox "Create Virtual Machine" Wizard "Version" selection.

towo2099 wrote:On your host is a software or service running (in most cases a antivirus soulution), which is using amd-v, so vbox can't use it and so you won't get any 64bit choices in the setup wizard.

Yes. I agree.
VirtualBox has a DEPENDENCY which isn't met on my machine, at least for 64-bit choices in the "Version" line of the "Create Virtual Machine" wizard.

May I ask ... Are these my key choices?
a. Figure out what that dependency is that is preventing Virtual Box from displaying 64-bit choices on the "Version" line, or,
b. Download and select a 32-bit Ubuntu Guest Operating System ISO

scottgus1 wrote:Thanks for the confirmations! (I realize you may have stated all of these items before, but, respectfully, you need a TL;DR version for your posts.)

I understand. I always provide full and complete details (for example, look at the original post).
I always screenshot. I always provide URLs. I always provide log files. etc.
So it has been driving me nuts that you can't see all the information I already provided, simply because I can't post U R Ls yet.
(They're all there; but you have to re-construct them.)

scottgus1 wrote:Yes it is either VT-x or AMD/V. You have an AMD processor, it's called AMD/V. You don't need ot worry about VT-x. (Two dofferent names for the same thing)

Thank you for confirming I don't have to deal with the Intel VT-x thing.
I already confirmed multiple times that the AMD-v thing is on my CPU and that Virtualization Technogy is enabled in the BIOS.
I did reboot with the five-minute pull-the-power-cord method. It's a desktop, so the only battery is the CMOS battery (that I know of anyway).

scottgus1 wrote:The now-pertinent part of the "no 64-bit guests" tutorial is:
make sure that no other host apps are already using VT-x/AMD-v. The usual culprits are system level debuggers, other VM platforms, and some resident anti-virus applications....Windows hosts with an EFI BIOS, DeviceGuard or CredentialGuard

Yes. I agree. That's where the FAQ that I was pointed to falls completely flat.
I did find software from Microsoft (mentioned quite a few times already so I won't repeat it here) that supposedly TESTS for both DeviceGuard & CredentialGuard, and I downloaded its zip file, but it seems to only work for Enterprise Windows 10, and not for my Windows 10 Pro (AFAICT).

So what a noob needs is an ACTIONABLE way to test for DeviceGuard or CredentialGuard and the EFI BIOS.

scottgus1 wrote: I do see that DeviceGuard or CredentialGuard have been mentioned before but I do not know if you were able to confirm whether any of these are present on your PC and have been turned off if possible.

Since the FAQ wasn't actionable on DeviceGuard or CredentialGuard, I will find software (if it exists) that TESTS for these VirtualBox dependencies.
Once I find that software, and once I run the tests, I will send back to you the LOCATION of that software so that you can confirm my tests.
Once you confirm my tests, we can ask Mpack to add to the FAQ pointers to that software, so that his FAQ becomes ACTIONABLE on that regard.

If everyone did this, nobody would have a problem twice.
That's my motto anyway.

scottgus1 wrote: I seem to remember reading that development environments, like Visual Studio, may also try to use VT-x.

Thanks for that heads up on the tribal knowledge of what sucks up the AMD vt-x that is a dependency for VirtualBox.

What the FAQ for noobs needs is ACTIONABLE hypertext links to SOFTWARE TESTS that will test for each one of these potential VirtualBox dependencies.

I will help provide those U R Ls, but I have to FIND them first, which is frustrating because there's no way I'm the first person to run into this problem, so the U R Ls should ALREADY be in the FAQ. But we'll get there, since the goal is that the next noob has an easier time of it than I am having.

scottgus1 wrote: I have had Bitdefender, an anti-virus, take VT-x on my laptop - uninstalled & VT-x was available again for Virtualbox

Yikes. Yet another dependency check that we need to add to the FAQ before running VirtualBox!

scottgus1 wrote:There is nothing else we as fellow Virtualbox users can do to help you clear up the AMD/V issue with your PC. You have some program that is taking this before Virtualbox can use it. There is no diagnosing program that I know if - you will just have to experiment - uninstall AV, other progs, etc. until 64-bit returns. (I would recommend a disk image backup of your host disk if you try this.)

I completely understand what you said.
I disagree but only in concept, and not in what you said.

My concept is that VirtualBox has DEPENDENCIES, whether we like it or not.
If someone wants to install VirtualBox, then those DEPENDENCIES will kill them.

While there are an infinite number of dependencies (e.g., you need electricity, and the operating system, and a keyboard, etc.), there are some CRITICAL DEPENDENCIES which we have noted must be identified before VirtualBox will allow 64-bit Versions to be displayed.

At the moment, we have nothing actionable - but I'm confident I will find ACTIONABLE items to test for those dependencies.
1. We need a U R L to test the VirtualBox DeviceGuard dependency
2. We need a U R L to test the VirtualBox CredentialGuard dependency
3. We need a U R L to test the VirtualBox EFI BIOS dependency
4. We need a U R L to test the VirtualBox BitDefender dependency
5. We need a U R L to test the VirtualBox AV dependency dependency

I'm working on that, as my motto is that nobody should have to start from scratch when someone has already been there before them.
Each one of us adds to the tribal knowledge of the group as a whole.

Look, this is not the place to write a new draft for "War and Peace". Keep focused, or I'm going to either start heavily editing your posts, or if this keeps on going about you writing tutorials in the past, and doing things to the documentation department, and not a tutorial being available, I'm going to lock the thread altogether. In your next post about any of those things. Without another warning.

Find what's using AMD-V on your host. That's your problem. Period. Focus on that. I don't want to hear anything more about templates. Is that completely understood?

If you have a problem with the terminology, head to the bugtracker and open a new ticket.

socratis wrote:Find what's using AMD-V on your host

Got it!

Moderator edit
No, you didn't get it!!!
As promised the post edited to remove unnecessary information (pretty much everything).
I have limited patience and time. An edit like this will NOT happen again, more drastic measure will follow.
We do NOT need to keep track of every little action or discovery on your path to righteousness. This is NOT your diary.

I'm working down this list as we type.
h t t p s :// www(dot) shaileshjha (dot)com/how-to-find-out-if-intel-vt-x-or-amd-v-virtualization-technology-is-supported-in-windows-10-windows-8-windows-vista-or-windows-7-machine/

1. The standard Windows 10 "systeminfo" command confirms that I have a Virtualization capable CPU, as shown in my screenshot below.
C:\> systeminfo
Hyper-V Requirements: VM Monitor Mode Extensions: Yes
Virtualization Enabled In Firmware: Yes
Second Level Address Translation: Yes
Data Execution Prevention Available: Yes
[img]h%20t%20t%20p%20:%20/%20/%20(dot)postimg(dot)org/fvrntgvi5/systeminfo.gif[/img]

2. The standard Windows 10 Control+Alt+Delete task manager "Performance" tab shows that AMD-v Virtualization is ENABLED as shown in this screenshot just now.
[img]h%20t%20t%20p%20s%20:%20/%20/%20s3(dot)postimg(dot)org/ajz3qky4j/taskmanager.gif[/img]

3. But bad news came out when the AMD Virtualization Technology and Microsoft Hyper-V System Compatibility Check Utility test completed.
h t t p : / / support(dot)amd(dot)com/en-us/search/utilities?k=virtualization

This utility checks your system’s compatibility with Microsoft Hyper-V and AMD processors. The utility has been updated to check and report on AMD’s Rapid Virtualization Indexing (RVI) feature that provides the necessary Second Level Address Translation (SLAT) support for Hyper-V. To use this utility: Download and unzip the package. Run amdhyperv.exe to launch the utility.

Here is a screenshot of the bad news that output when I right clicked on the downloaded and unzipped amdvhyperv.exe and clicked "Run as Administrator".
[img]h%20t%20t%20p%20s%20:%20/%20/%20s1.postimg(dot)org/kk6s3rptr/failed_amd_test.gif[/img]

Since that U R L is munged, I'll transcribe what it says:
AMD-V Technology and Microsoft Hyper-V System Compatibility Check
Test results from Microsoft Hyper-V compatibility check for systems with AMD processors
This system is not compatible with Hyper-V
This utility detected that a necessary BIOS patch is not installed.
Please contact your system vendor to determine whether a BIOS upgrade is available.
If so, upgrade your BIOS and r-run the utility.
If not, consider upgrading to a new AMD64 system to get the latest in virtualization capabilities, performance, and power efficiency.
AMD's most current processors do not require a BIOS patch to run Hyper-V.
This utility detected that AMD Virtualization (AMD-V) Technology is not enabled in BIOS.
ENable AMD-V in BIOS.
Re-Run this utility to further verify your system is compatible with Hyper-V.

4. I rebooted to the BIOS screen (by pressing F10) but strangely, the BIOS version is NOT listed anywhere.

5. Googling for how to get Windows 10 to report the current BIOS version I found this.
h t t p : / / www(dot)howto-connect(dot)com/windows-10-bios-version-of-motherboard/
Control Panel -> System and Security -> Administrative Tools -> System Information
System Summary > BIOS version/Date = American Megatrends Inc. 5.02, 8/31/2009

Here is a screenshot of that information.
h t t p s : / / s4(dot)postimg(dot)org/geh6m4lyl/bios_version.gif

Please stop wirting hundreds of lines!

- AMD-V is enabled in your BIOS
- something is using hardware virtualization on your system
- THERE IS NO SYSTEM FUNCTION WHICH CAN SHOW WHAT IS USING HW VIRT!
- therefore also the Microsoft Hyper-V System Compatibility Check doesn't see it and just tells you with a standard text "check your BIOS" which is not the problem.

Do you have any other Antivirus / Security / SW Emulation software running on your system which could be using HW-virt?
THERE IS NO TOOL TO CHECK FOR THIS, because there is no function in Windows for such a detection!

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/template

A pattern, a mold. What could this possibly be a mold or pattern for creating? Hint: when you chose "Ubuntu (32bit)" what did you think you were selecting?

Please restrict yourself to a handful of sentences per post from now on, with minimal markup and screenshots. Seeing your thought processes in such detail is not helping.

@woodrock
I warned you once already. Do not make me repeat myself. Things will not have a happy ending. As promised, your post was edited to keep the relevant information. You're driving the whole forum insane and we've got to take action if this doesn't stop. Not tomorrow, not now, but yesterday.

Martin wrote:Please stop writing hundreds of lines!

I apologize. It's working now, thanks to all your help.

mpack wrote:Please restrict yourself to a handful of sentences per post

OK. Thanks to your FAQ, I finally got it working after trying very many things.

socratis wrote:You're driving the whole forum insane

I apologize. This is my last post to the thread. I promise.

Thank you for all your help!

woodrock wrote:Thanks to your FAQ, I finally got it working after trying very many things.

And after all the hundreds of pages (if printed), you never told us the culprit, the source of the problem!

Could you do that in a 1-line post so that we all can benefit from your experience?

WITHOUT SCREENSHOTS OR URLs.