Cloning to create a full backup

[KCBDurfee]

I recently had a HD failure, so have become meticulous about taking snapshots and looking into cloning as a backup. But, I am a bit confused after reading the documentation for both VirtualBox and CloneVDI tool. First, the most recent version for CloneVDI that I found is 2.1, dated 2012, making me think it may be a bit out of date. Also, the VirtualBox help has a pretty strong statement that their clone utility MUST be used over any third party utilities. I have used CloneVDI twice, it seems to work well, but my confusion is in the file date/times of the result. My main vdi file has a date of 6 April, even though I have worked on my VM through evening of 8 Apr. The latest snapshot files (I have two) do reflect the last date/time I used the VM (I took a snapshot after I closed the VM). The resulting file from CloneVDI has an expected date/time stamp of 8 Apr, when I ran it after my last session with VB.

Based on the file date/times, I am assuming that to maintain a complete HD image you have to keep the main .vdi file and the snapshots together, it appears the snapshot files have recent changes in them, not the main file.

Here are my questions:
Does (as it appears from from documentation, though not 100% explicit) CloneVDI bundle in the original drive plus changes in the snapshots to create the cloned file?. So is the cloned file stand-alone, could be installed into a new VM if necessary and include all changes in the snapshots?

When I ran CloneVDI I picked the main .vdi file as source, not the latest snapshot. Should I be picking the latest snapshot to get the latest version? Or, does CloneVDI 'walk' the snapshot chain to get the latest when I pick the main file? Is there a preferred way to clone the absolute latest changes in the VM disk?

VirtualBox clone has a bit different user interface and options. Again, I am using clone to create backups that do NOT require the snapshot chain if I wanted to re-install a clone. If I pick the options Full Clone and Current State, is that what I get? It appears the anser is yes, as the result is a new folder with no snapshot folder, just a new .vdi file.

I can open the clone tool either from the main menu or by rt-click on a snapshot. If I do the former, will I be getting changes in the latest snapshot? If I click on a not-the-most-recent snapshot to start the clone dialog, will I be getting a clone only up to that point?

Finally, is there any advantage to using CloneVDI vs the clone option in VirtualBox? Again, it appears the latest version of CloneVDI is now about 3 years old. Are there things missing if I use that, or maybe I missed the latest (I have 2.1).

[mpack]

If all you want is a backup then you shouldn't be cloning the VDI files at all. What you should be doing is making a simple copy of the entire VM folder, to secondary media.

A clone is a copy which has then been modified in order to coexist with the original. For backup you don't want anything modified, hence a simple copy is better.

Incidentally, CloneVDI is still pretty much up to date. The functional things it needs to do have not changed since 2012, and I don't do new versions just to maintain some phoney release schedule. When I have a useful new feature to add, then I'll release a new version.

I'm also aware of the passage in the user manual that says "you should only make copies of virtual disk images using the utility supplied with VirtualBox" (section 5.6). But, that passage isnt saying what you think it does. It simply means that you have to properly clone a VDI if you want to use the copy on the same host, as a simple host file copy will result in a UUID conflict. At the time that passage was written VBoxManage was the only tool which could clone a VDI properly.

The secondary (unintended) meaning is actually fair enough too - you use third party tools at your own risk. OTOH CloneVDI has a pretty good track record... better in fact than the VBoxManage track record regarding introducing defects into cloned media.

Anyway just in case it isn't crystal clear: these are user forums, where users share information and sometimes software tools. CloneVDI is an example of a user created tool, it is absolutely not an official part of VirtualBox. Still... I'd be quite surprised if the devs aren't using CloneVDI when the need arises.

Information on how to use CloneVDI to successfully clone snapshots is given in the CloneVDI release notes. You might find those notes worth a look.

[KCBDurfee]

Thanks for the quick response. I have read the release notes, and I am still not quite sure about one of my questions related to your tool (CloneVDI), which is, if I point to the main .vdi file, will the tool march through the snapshots to include all the information there?

There is a paragraph in release notes under "Why clone at all? - Why not use Snapshots instead?" that suggests the clone created from the main file as source has all the snapshots, but, again, is the behavior different if I point to the main file vs a snapshot as source? The paragraph under "Can it clone VDIs with snapshots?" does indicate I can select a particular snapshot, including the latest. So I guess that if I want a full backup with latest changes, I either pick the main file or the latest snapshot. If I want a clone that only goes back to a certain, not the latest, snapshot, I pick that. Did I get that right?

I gather your tool always creates a single .vdi clone in all cases, with no snapshots. The VirtualBox tool can apparently clone the snapshot chain if a user wanted to do that ('everything' option in the snapshots box in the dialog).

I also do a full folder backup to external media, thanks for that tip, I was just looking for some solution that would be quicker to access in case of a failure in future. I also like redundancy.

[mpack]

If you want to include data from a snapshot, you have to select the snapshot as the input. If you only select the base then you only get the data from the base.

I don't have them on hand, but I'm pretty sure I already said this in the release notes. I guess you missed it.

[KCBDurfee]

Thanks, this is useful information. You do state that choosing a snapshot file needs the base file and will result in complete image to that snapshot, but there are places where it seemed to me ambiguous whether I get a complete snapshot if I choose the base file. So having an explicit statement that you do NOT get a complete image is helpful.

BTW thanks for nice tool, it does work well . I do find the release notes to be a bit scattered though, it is an unusual format for a help file. Given that you are not likely making billions of dollars from of this free tool and have limited time to put into it, I understand if you just leave it alone. But I do appreciate your quick responses and patience to my rather naive queries! I have a much better understanding of VirtualBox cloning both using your tool and VB itself now.

[mpack]

I think the main thing you are missing is that multiple complete images can be made from one snapshot chain. The input file you select dictates what point in time the clone will represent. Selecting the base selects the oldest state, i.e. the VM state as it was before creation of the first snapshot. If you want the most up to date state then you must select the newest snapshot VDI as input.

p.s. The release notes are just that. A series of notes, not a help file or a user manual. It does however have a structure, i.e. a FAQ section followed by a series of simple howto scenarios.
Beside which: you use snapshots, I don't, and never have. You should be explaining this stuff to me.