Write A Bootable Floppy From Windows 98 Guest

[PJB]

Hi
Here's something that I can't seem to figure out (and may not even be possible). I've got two old computers with hard disk problems. I need to make bootable-to-dos physical floppies so I can format the hard drives with the system switch. There's a charity that would like to have them & I don't want to send them with my data nor without a working operating system.

So, I have to format the drives & re-install the OS. What I'd like to do is use my USB floppy drive 'attached' to either my Windows 98SE or my MS-DOS 6.22 and create a bootable floppy (with the 'format' command & mscdex.exe). Then I can use the original CDs that will go with the machines.

The trick is that I can't get the DOS nor the Windows 98SE to recognize the USB floppy (I understand the DOS VM ignoring it) I have general USB filters attached as well as filters for the drive itself. When I put in a controller for floppy, it only wants images attached, of course.

I do have a bootable floppy image attached to each virtual machine, but I would think it can not be copied to a real disk & still be bootable. I also have WIndows XP VM available, which does see the USB floppy. But, it won't male a bootable floppy. (I think I remember that Windows XP doesn't use 'real' ODS for the command prompt.)

Have any of you ever found a work around to create a bootable, physical floppy from a virtual image? Or am I out of my mind thinking this might be possible?

I'm working with VirtualBox 4.1.12 r77245 on an OS X 10.6.8 host on a MacBook Pro Core2Duo 2.2 ghz

Thanks! I appreciate your ideas & experiences.
Paul

[michaln]

Why not create a bootable floppy image in a VM and then copy the image to a floppy on the host with tools like dd or rawwrite?

FYI, if you want to use a USB floppy drive with a DOS VM, attach it to the VM as a host floppy device, not as a USB device.

[PJB]

Thank You Michain for taking the time to write.
I will try DD &/or rawwrite. To be honest, I never knew these existed. Always glad to learn something new!

For attaching the floppy as a host device- I seem to have hit a wall. I studied the manual thoroughly, as well as these forum posts & must have a mental block.
I have a USB filter for that drive. I tried using the 'Settings-Storage' interface to add a controller for the drive as a floppy controller. But that will only allow images to attach to the controller. It won't attach the disk.

I went into VIrtual Media Manager & wasn't able to figure something out from there.
I tested starting the VM with a floppy in it & without a floppy, adding it later. It stil won't attach it. I tested floppies with no files & those with files. I formatted one with OS X to FAT 16 and tried that one, too. My guess is that I missed something on how to make the floppy as a Host device.

What did I goof up?
Thanks!
Paul

[michaln]

Instead of attaching a floppy image, it's possible to capture a host drive with VirtualBox. However, to be honest that may not work on OS X, since floppy drives on Macs died out ~15 years ago (yes, you can attach an external USB floppy drive, but that's not exactly common).

It's definitely possible to use dd with OS X, just don't ask me what the corresponding device name is. Disk Utility may work too, but I never used that for writing to floppies.

[PJB]

Capturing the drive is where I'm getting stuck. I tried 'Devices' & checked the drive. But, it doesn't appear in DOS nor Windows 98SE. OS X, however sees the disk fine in its 'Finder'. I tired pre-formatting it in XP with no luck. Then I tired formatting it with OS X's Disk Utility. Just goofy!
I tired rawwrite from within XP & it would not allow Drive F, which is the letter the VM assigned to the physical floppy drive. I removed all floppy image devices & controllers, but the VM still gave it the assignment 'F', so rawwrite would not allow a write.
Perhaps I have to figure out how to get the bootable img disk to a physical floppy from outside a VM.
Thanks Again & appreciate any more pointers. I'm sure it is something I'm doing improperly.
Paul

[michaln]

In case it wasn't clear... running rawwrite in a VM is pointless. Run dd (or rawwrite, if it's on Windows) on the host.

[PJB]

Nope! My thick head didn't get it. I tried rawwrite from in WIndows XP VM.
I'm still trying DD. I'm stuck at the error telling me there is no such directory as /dev/fd0 So, I'm trying to figure out how to point dd in the direction of my USB attached floppy drive with its disk. Then, the proper syntax to replace dev/fd0 Finder sees it, but I'm lost figuring out the device name & path.

[michaln]

I believe 'diskutil list' should show the /dev/xxx name. The Disk Utility probably shows that somewhere, too. I don't have a USB floppy drive at hand, so I don't know what it might show up as on OS X.

You should also check if the Disk Utility will allow you to restore an image onto a floppy, like it can do with hard disks and CDs.

[PJB]

I want to thank you once again, Michain!
I learned a lot. You're a great teacher.

I didn't try too much to restore with OS X's Disk Utility
I used diskutil list as you suggested & diskutil /dev/disk1 to detach it from OS X
dd worked perfectly to make a physical floppy from a bootable image. I was able to format the two computers' hard drives, re-install the OS's & I'll be able to deliver fresh & ready machines to the charity with their W-98SE OS disks this morning. They will appreciate your helping get them ready.

For my next trick, I'm going to (try) to get the USB floppy to be recognized by DOS & Windows 98SE VirtualBox virtual machines.

Sorry the thread wandered away from VirtualBox & into command line operations.
Thanks Again!
Paul

[michaln]

Glad to hear it worked for you.

[np]

Hi, PJB,
I've been successful in loading up Windows 98 in virtual box. I wanted to run a legacy program that would print to a newer laser printer and save/load from a physical floppy drive. I've gotten the print part down, but I'm having the same problems you did trying to "see" the physical floppy drive. I've basically run through all the steps you did, but no luck so far. Everything else works fine (CD/DVD drive, etc.), but the WIn 98 machine just doesn't connect to the physical floppy. I've tried two hosts: Win XP & Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit. I was just wondering if you'd had any luck?

[PJB]

I never did get the USB Floppy recognized by the virtual Windows 98SE machine.
The USB floppy drive is recognized by both Mac OS X 10.6.8 as well as the virtual Windows XP Pro machine. So, my work-around has been use one of those (usually OS X) to copy the files from the physical floppy (using the USB drive) to an empty "Virtual Floppy". I attach the virtual floppy to the Windows 98SE virtual machine.

I save tot he virtual floppy, moving the files later in OS X or the XP Virtual Machine.
So far, it's done well for me, but I haven't done much beyond printer drivers, Microsoft Word documents & a few .exe files.

When you get your floppy drive recognized, it wil be great to hear the solution! Best of luck on the project!
Paul

[np]

PJB,
Thank you very much for the quick reply. For my situation, I need to load/save from the floppy frequently, so I'm going to try to get the physical drive working. I have tried VMware Player, and that software does recognize the floppy. That may be useful for your needs. The problem with VMware is that I have found no way to print from the virtual machine. I have spent more time with that software than this. It's frustrating that I can't get an easy fix on either, but I will definitely let you know if/when I get the floppy working on Virtualbox.