Sharing files between host & guest

[Sorceror]

The rest sounds like 'We are the devs so we decide what gets put in and we don't give a what the people want. the public'. Indeed it does sound like that to me. It's exactly the public that uses this
product.

Am I not a member of the public because I don't demand that VirtualBox support the features I want -- because I am content to deal with the limitations of shared directories? You seem to be confusing VirtualBox with a commercial product that runs focus groups and such to determine what it's target audience actually wants. Free software doesn't work like that; open-source even less so.

Also note, there is a difference between a feature request and a demand. OP was certainly making demands rather than requests.

[mpack]

If Virtual PC and VMware can do it why shouldn't VirtualBox be able to as well?

VirtualPC can be left out of the discussion because it only needs to support Windows, and of course MS has the freedom to, if necessary, add new features to the Windows OS to make any feature possible - and not document it.

Can VMWare do cut and paste file copying across guest and host? Can a VMware user confirm this? I ask because it sounds quite difficult for a VM host application to detect that a couple of mouse clicks inside a VM should be interpreted as meaning that some file (and you have to work out which!) has been selected for copying.

[Sasquatch]

VMWare can do this when you have the VMWare tools installed. It's fairly easy how they do it, in theory at least. When you copy a file, a reference pointer is saved in your memory and stored in the clipboard. That reference point is used when you paste it in the VM and the data is transferred to the Guest using the pointer. The data is stored temporarily in the Guest memory and written to the virtual drive right after it's in memory (it happens pretty fast, so you won't see the actual memory use).

This is just my own idea of how it works. The real transfer method might vary, but I think I'm not far off.

[AliveNoMore]

@Sorceror: whether the software is commercial, closed freeware or open-source it doesn't mean the users opinions should be ignored. Granted, the author(s) of free software (closed or open) has a bit more of an excuse not to include a cerain feature - it's free after all. It the software is made for a small and private group of people, then OK, but since the program is made for everyone (else it wouldn't be available for free download), then those people's opinions should matter. I'm not saying that every single request, no matter how crazy/obscure it is, HAS to be implemented, but it's not right to completely ignore people's requests and opinions, which was basically what you said.
Also by "public demand" I didn't mean people are issuing ultimatums. What I meant was that the number of people who would like this feature isn't a small one.

@mpack: I find it irrelevant whether MS VPC 2007 suppots officialy only Windows. That doesn't mean it should be left out of the discussion. We are talking about a feature that program posseses. It makes no difference if the particular program is Windows oriented. It has a feature that is useful, that's what's important. VirtualBox supports Windows too, so the two programs have that in common, so if one of them has a certain feature, then it would be nice if the other one had it too. This works both ways. For example MS VPC 2007 lacks USB support. It would've been really nice to have it but it's not there. I myself don't really need it that much but I realize it would be of use to a lot of people. That software is basically abandoned - not being worked on that is so there is no point in requesting features, which I suppose would be harder. At least I don't know a way to suggest something to Microsoft.
Since VirtualBox is actively developed, has a support forum (which means it's more in touch with the common man, than Microsoft is), etc., I consider it more appropriate to expect drag and drop from VirtualBox, than to expect USB support and perfomance optimizations for example from Virtual PC 2007. Especially since drag and drop exists as a feature request since quite a while.

[Sorceror]

If the software is made for a small and private group of people, then OK, but since the program is made for everyone (else it wouldn't be available for free download)

So it's perfectly sensible for me to request the Linux kernel to support CP/M-style drive letters? Or for Python's syntax to become exactly like Perl's? They are made for everyone after all, since they are free and open-source.

In reality, developers make free/open-source software for themselves, then release it to the masses who can then decide whether or not it suits their needs. They then only listen to feature requests that fit their purposes (which may change over time), and the easy ones to implement tend to get done very quickly. I'm not saying that drag-and-drop host/guest interaction doesn't suit VirtualBox's needs. As has been said earlier in this thread, it is on the TODO list for VBox devs, but it is presumably a very low priority. An alternative exists - shared folders - that works quite well, but is a little slower to set up.

Also by "public demand" I didn't mean people are issuing ultimatums.

OP is.

What I meant was that the number of people who would like this feature isn't a small one.

To play devil's advocate, if the activity on this thread is any indication, it's not.

@mpack: I find it irrelevant whether MS VPC 2007 suppots officialy only Windows. That doesn't mean it should be left out of the discussion.

Actually, it does. It's much easier to say "here's a feature that works on Windows host + Windows guest combinations", especially when the VM solution is produced by the same company that develops Windows. It's not a general solution, whereas VirtualBox is. I'm sure the VBox devs would want to provide a general solution to drag-and-drop if they were going to support it at all, and this is an important consideration when talking about how much time and effort needs to go into it, and wondering why it hasn't already been done.

VirtualBox supports Windows too, so the two programs have that in common, so if one of them has a certain feature, then it would be nice if the other one had it too.

Like being slow, clunky, and forcing you to use Microsoft-proprietory file formats?

This works both ways. For example MS VPC 2007 lacks USB support. It would've been really nice to have it but it's not there.

Why should VPC support USB? It's designed to run on Windows, which you can then install your USB drivers on, and be happy. (This is probably how Microsoft thinks about it.)

I consider it more appropriate to expect drag and drop from VirtualBox, than to expect USB support and perfomance optimizations for example from Virtual PC 2007. Especially since drag and drop exists as a feature request since quite a while.

Agreed. However, unfortunately, this thread did not begin "Is there any progress on this feature request?"; it began "YOU MUST DO WHAT I SAY BECAUSE I WANT IT". To be honest, that has tainted my tone a little. I'm not saying that drag-and-drop shouldn't be implemented; I just don't think the arguments for doing it now are very good. I am a software developer (though, I must reiterate, I have no association with VBox or Sun execpt as a user), and a feature like drag-and-drop has a very poor effort-to-value ratio. It is perfectly appropriate for VBox devs to ignore this while they have 1) SOME system that allows transferring files between host and guest (e.g. shared folders) and 2) higher priorities.

Of course, VirtualBox does have an open-source edition. There is every chance that, with suitable demand, some other developer will write a drag-and-drop patch which may be included upstream in the future. I actually think this is more likely than VBox devs spending their time and effort on it.

[AliveNoMore]

I see you are one of those Microsoft/Windows bashers. I get it, Microsoft has made mistakes and there are a lot of things MS does that I don't like and approve. Still it's not the root of all evil in the world. I'm sick of people ignoring and/or discriminating Windows. I'm sick of Linux fanboys waiting for an excuse to show how bad MS is and how their stuff sucks.
But then again I should've known better - posting on a pro-Sun/Linux forum with their fanboys roaming everywhere. Of course MS would be despised here. After all MS is the reason for global warming and world hunger, right?
By now you think I'm angry. You bet I am. It's like talking to a wall.

I came here hoping to get at least a little bit of concrete information about drag and drop but not only have I gotten nothing of the kind I got the "drag and drop is useless because it's a MS thing and we hate MS and their users" treatment. At least that's what it felt like.

Since there is no chance of actually receiving any useful information and getting my message accross I'm abandoning the whole thing, leaving extremely dissapointed with this forum and the VirtualBox developers and going back to VPC. It might be slower but at least it has drag and drop and is more stable than VirtualBox ever was (and perhaps ever will be).

[Sasquatch]

Keep it nice here. If there is any point where it tends to go to a flame war, we are forced to lock this thread to keep it from escalating.

[Etepetete]

...I'm abandoning the whole thing, leaving ...this forum...

Great news!

[Sorceror]

...I'm abandoning the whole thing, leaving ...this forum...

Great news!

Us Windows-bashing Linux kernel core-team developers couldn't be happier, right Etepetete?

In all seriously, responses like this are entirely unproductive. If he thinks pointing out that VirtualPC only officiailly needs to support Windows is Windows-bashing, then leave him to his delusion. Or at least point out that Microsoft patented double-clicking, which surely makes it a Windows-only technology (in the same way that drag-and-drop is Windows-only).

[Etepetete]

...In all seriously, responses like this are entirely unproductive. If he thinks pointing out that VirtualPC only officiailly needs to support Windows is Windows-bashing, then leave him to his delusion. Or at least point out that Microsoft patented double-clicking, which surely makes it a Windows-only technology (in the same way that drag-and-drop is Windows-only).

Under normal circumstances you are right. As there was no recognizable willingness on behalf of AliveNoMore to understand the reasoning presented in this thread, any further argumentation would have been futile. Thus, it was best that AliveNoMore departed from this forum.

[Perryg]

Alright then topic is ended and time to move on.