Sharing files between host & guest

[a-ok]

This is too complicated. What I had to do was:
- find the topic in the help file (30 seconds)
- read it (60 seconds)
- make a folder on the host OS (20 seconds)
- open the command prompt in the guest OS (5 seconds)
- type 'net use x: \\vboxsvr\HostFolder' (10 seconds)
- go to My Computer in the guest OS (5 seconds)

and only then I could copy the 20 mb file. That took more than two minutes.
Here is a much better method of sharing files that should be implemented: just drag the files from the host to the guest! There, that's my contribution to the open source community this year. Get to it nerds...

[Perryg]

Everyone looks at these as being the same computer but they are not.
When was the last time you could simply drag and drop to you neighbors computer?
Besides if you think it is so easy why don't you get after it sparkie?

[a-ok]

Everyone looks at these as being the same computer but they are not.
When was the last time you could simply drag and drop to you neighbors computer?

Well it's not my neighbor's computer, it's my computer within my computer so it's twice as mine as the host is. Besides, I tried to do it, that means I wanted to do it, that means I should be able to do it. Instead I had to read the help and learn the nerd-approved procedure for sharing files.

Besides if you think it is so easy why don't you get after it sparkie?

Because I have a girlfriend so I don't need to distract myself with nerd activities.

[Perryg]

That's the exact point. It is not a computer inside your computer. It is an isolated computer meaning it is a separate unit that is sharing your keyboard, mouse, and monitor. If it were not you could not run Linux and Windows at the exact same time. It is in a sense a complete PC of it's own.

[Sasquatch]

For an easier explanation: you have two computers hooked onto a KVM switch to share the same monitor, keyboard and mouse. Now, can you copy a file in less than 5 seconds from one computer to the other? You can't, because you first need to establish a connection, then use it to view the files and folders of the destination so you can finally paste the file you want to it. Takes about two minutes. What's the difference?

Oh, and the excuse of having a girlfriend does not go with us. Your girlfriend has to take you for who you are, and if that means that you spend some additional time programming stuff, so be it. It depends on the girl if she accepts it or not (and of course on you too, if you still spent enough time with her) .

[mpack]

Hmm. My thought was "he prostesteth too much" with his unprompted and frankly rather dubious claim about having a girlfriend. I mean, it's not the first thing people usually blurt out to every random stranger they meet...

[Sorceror]

This is too complicated. What I had to do was:
- find the topic in the help file (30 seconds)
- read it (60 seconds)
- make a folder on the host OS (20 seconds)
- open the command prompt in the guest OS (5 seconds)
- type 'net use x: \\vboxsvr\HostFolder' (10 seconds)
- go to My Computer in the guest OS (5 seconds)

The first thing I do on Windows guest systems is install WinSCP. Makes things a lot easier if you don't want to install guest extensions. Anyway, now that you KNOW how to do it, you can cut out that first 1.5 minutes when you need to do it again!

it's my computer within my computer so it's twice as mine as the host is.

It's closer to half as yours. It is for all intents and purposes a distinct computer. How else could you install a complete operating system in it?

Besides, I tried to do it, that means I wanted to do it, that means I should be able to do it.

I once tried running a Linux application under BeOS 5. It ran to the point that it complained about not having the right libraries. Should I complain to BeOS developers (or any of the BeOS revival projects) about it not working in 5 seconds? This is something you're not MEANT to do.

Besides if you think it is so easy why don't you get after it sparkie?

Because I have a girlfriend so I don't need to distract myself with nerd activities.

You obviously have "a lot" of respect for the people you are asking to develop the feature you are requesting. Are you a manager?

[AliveNoMore]

The OP's rudeness aside, he does have a point. It is indeed needlessly complicated the way it is now. It can be made a lot simpler - via drag and drop. There has been public demand for this feature for A LOT of time. Are there any plans to include it in future releases of VirtualBox? Maybe next major release (v4)? Or is it a lost cause and there is no chance if this feature being implemented at all?
I simply fail to see any reason why drag and drop still hasn't been done. VirtualBox's development team is obviously a capable one (so we rule out lack of knowledge) and there is public demand. The way I see it VirtualBox can only benefit from including drag and drop functionaltiy so it puzzles me why it hasn't been done yet.

[Sorceror]

It is indeed needlessly complicated the way it is now.

I would not say "needlessly". There is a need to make it work, and VirtualBox being a cross-platform general-purpose virtualisation solution limits the ways things can be done. It would not be satisfactory for VirtualBox to implement methods that only work on some combinations of host/guest.

Drag-and-drop is probably the most misunderstood feature of modern computing. For the most part, it Just Works(TM), but there's a lot of complications under the surface. What exactly is being dragged? Is it a chunk of text, a rendered image, or a file from a file manager? Should VirtualBox handle all or only some of these types? How exactly would VirtualBox be notified on what type of object is being dragged on each variant of host system? How can VirtualBox allow dragging from the guest system to the host that looks and feels like how it works on the host? How should drag-and-drop be handled on non-graphical guest systems?

I think this is probably the most important question: How would the transfer take place if a suitable (virtual) network connection is not already established? There could potentially be MASSIVE security issues with automagic transfers like this.

The real problem as I see it is that virtualisation has become popularised. In the past, virtualisation was essentially restricted to server-like environments where the admins were expected to know how things worked (and often why as well). The average desktop user does not understand what's really going on with things like VirtualBox, and so makes demands for it to be like Wine, which is designed to integrate (for some value of "integrate") into your host system, rather than what it actually is, which is a complete and distinct, though virtual, computer.

It's really not difficult to set up guest additions and shared directories. It's also very secure, because you only share what you want to. It might be a little time-consuming the first time, but once you know how to do it, you can do it quite quickly. That said, if VirtualBox devs end up implementing drag-and-drop, I won't complain, but it's by no means an easy thing to implement.

[AliveNoMore]

I never said implementing drag and drop would be easy. However it's not impossible. If Virtual PC and VMware can do it why shouldn't VirtualBox be able to as well?
If it's that much of a security issue, it can be made as a feature that is off by default but can be turned on. Or it could be an additional guest addition ( )so that only people who want it would install it, and people who don't care about it and want security can still be happy.
The point is: when there is a will, there is a way.
I find the 'cross-platform' thing an excuse not to do it. Just because certain combinations of host/guest OS wouldn't be able to support drag and drop this justifies not doing it for combinations of host/gues OS which do support it? It sounds like that to me. And if that's the argument I find it to be a VERY weak argument.
The way I see it the only thing that VirtualBox lacks that would make it trully the best virtualization program out there is drag and drop. It already beats the other freebies VPC 2007 (can't comment on the new version) and VMware Player in terms of performance and features. Perhaps it's not as good as VMware Workstation (I'm not very familiar with it) but it also costs a lot of money so it's understandable. Sure it might lack the stability of VPC but with time this will get fixed, and the features of VirtualBox already compensate the possible bugs that might occur.

[Sorceror]

I never said implementing drag and drop would be easy.

Sure you did.

I simply fail to see any reason why drag and drop still hasn't been done. VirtualBox's development team is obviously a capable one (so we rule out lack of knowledge)

However it's not impossible. If Virtual PC and VMware can do it why shouldn't VirtualBox be able to as well?

Granted.

I find the 'cross-platform' thing an excuse not to do it. Just because certain combinations of host/guest OS wouldn't be able to support drag and drop this justifies not doing it for combinations of host/gues OS which do support it?

The effort you are asking for is greater than you think. I'm sure you could reasonably assume that "the public" would expect it to work in the multiple current Windows varients and Linux. However, as far as I understand, there are many subtle sub-varients (especially on the side of Linux/BSD/etc.) that would need explicit support in VirtualBox for it to work properly - on both the host and guest additions levels (e.g. Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment ...).

And if that's the argument I find it to be a VERY weak argument.

I find the argument that "other VM solutions have done it" to be a VERY weak argument. Maybe that's half the reason why they run slower than VirtualBox?

From my perspective as a software engineer/developer (although I'm not attached to Sun or VirtualBox in any way), the amount of effort required to make host/client Drag-and-Drop work correctly massively outways the benefits it provides. The argument is that it is being demanded by the public, but, to be painfully honest, who is the public to make demands of an open-source (or gratis PUEL) project? I'm sure if someone took the VirtualBox OSE, retro-fitted a working Drag-and-Drop implementation to it, then sent patches back to Sun's VBox team, they would be praised by all. But there is clearly not enough "public" demand for someone to do this.

[AliveNoMore]

Just because I said the team is obviously a capable one doesn't mean the implementation would be easy. These are not the same things.
Again with the whole 'since Linux drag and drop is tricky, lets scrap the whole thing' mentality. I get it, it's not easy. Do the developers do only the easy things?
The rest sounds like 'We are the devs so we decide what gets put in and we don't give a what the people want. the public'. Indeed it does sound like that to me. It's exactly the public that uses this product. It's not like VirtualBox is made for a chosen elite or something,... or is it? If it's made for everyone, then the opinion of the people should matter at least a little bit. Or is this way of thinking due to the open-source nature of the project?

There is also lack of information on the subject whether drag and drop will be done. I also asked if this feature is being worked on at all. Will we, the users, see drag and drop implemented at all or should we stop keeping our hopes up and migrate to a different VM program?
An answer like 'Yes, there will be drag and drop SOME DAY' or 'No, we can't/won't do it' would suffice.

MOD Edit: Content changed (improper language)

[Perryg]

OK Everyone needs to calm down.

While we encourage debate, language (even lan*uage) that is meant to be disguised is going over the top.
Keep it decent or I will be forced to lock the topic.

Additionally while I am not privy to the work schedule nor the direction that the DEVs are going it only stands to reason that someday it might be available. Everything is possible.

[AliveNoMore]

it only stands to reason that someday it might be available.

I was hoping for something more specific than this. That's the reason I registered and posted - I wanted to know whether drag and drop is on the "to do" list, even if it's at the very bottom of it.

[Perryg]

If it makes you feel better than I feel sure it is. Exactly where on the to-do list it is I have no idea.