[Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Discussions about using Linux guests in VirtualBox.

[Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 6. Jun 2019, 19:52

A VHD created by VBox can't be mounted in Windows.
A VHD created by Windows isn't 'seen' by VBox.

I've read everything I've found, including the User Manual,

Any ideas what's wrong or what I should do next?

Warm Regards, Mark.
Last edited by socratis on 7. Jun 2019, 10:26, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Marked as [Resolved].
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
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Re: VHD v. VHD

Postby socratis » 6. Jun 2019, 21:29

abcdefgh wrote:what I should do next?
How about sharing some details, versions/revisions/builds used, programs, etc.

And keep in mind that "Win10" is NOT a version. Find out the exact one by running "winver". And for VirtualBox, by running "VBoxManage -version".
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
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Re: VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 6. Jun 2019, 21:58

socratis wrote:
abcdefgh wrote:what I should do next?
How about sharing some details, versions/revisions/builds used, programs, etc.

Win10 1803 (OS Build 17134.472)
VBox 6.0.8
Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view
 Directory of C:\VMs\Mint

19-06-06  12:56    <DIR>          .
19-06-06  12:56    <DIR>          ..
19-06-06  13:37    <DIR>          Logs
19-06-06  12:51             6,521 Mint.vbox
19-06-06  03:29             6,521 Mint.vbox-prev
19-06-06  13:41    42,951,770,112 Mint.vdi
19-01-05  01:12                 0 Mint.vdi UUID = 6d21bc46-c1ab-4b8a-b720-53eb403cf0bb
19-06-06  13:41     1,275,383,296 Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd
19-06-02  23:36                 0 Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd UUID = 88547b35-b43b-4fac-8671-b55688d6deff
19-03-17  17:46    <DIR>          Snapshots
19-06-06  13:05        18,923,520 test.vhd

'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' was created with VBox. It contains a portable version of the Pale Moon browser. I'm writing this to you while in it.
'test.vhd' was created with Windows.
Last edited by abcdefgh on 7. Jun 2019, 01:43, edited 1 time in total.
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
Primary OS: MS Windows other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Linux Mint 18.3, Cinnamon

Re: VHD v. VHD

Postby socratis » 6. Jun 2019, 22:33

abcdefgh wrote:'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd'
I highly doubt that a Linux distribution will have a filesystem that Windows would be able to mount. Last I checked, Windows couldn't understand an ext3 or ext4 filesystem.

What's the error and where are you getting it from?

And what about the 'test.vhd'? Did you create a VHD that's a compatible version? And what are you trying to do with it?
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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Re: VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 7. Jun 2019, 00:55

socratis wrote:I highly doubt that a Linux distribution will have a filesystem that Windows would be able to mount.

I'm not mounting 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' in Windows. I'm mounting it in the Linux VM. It is ext4, but that doesn't matter, does it? But it should at least mount in Windows, even if formatted ext4 (or even if unformatted), shouldn't it?

'test.vhd' is formatted NTSC in Windows, and as you can see above, it's in the same directory as the VM and 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd', however, VBox doesn't 'see' it. And, Yes, I unmounted it in Windows before the attempt. So am I to conclude that VBox does not accept VHDs created in Windows?
What's the error and where are you getting it from?

There is no error message. 'test.vhd' is simply not visible in Media Manager or in 'Settings' 'Storage'.
And what about the 'test.vhd'? Did you create a VHD that's a compatible version?

A VHD that's a compatible version?? What do you mean by that?
And what are you trying to do with it?

I assume you mean 'test.vhd'... It's just a throwaway test disk to see if I can attach it to a VBox VM... I can't.
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
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Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
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Re: VHD v. VHD

Postby socratis » 7. Jun 2019, 07:07

abcdefgh wrote:A VHD created by VBox can't be mounted in Windows.
A VHD created by Windows isn't 'seen' by VBox.
abcdefgh wrote:I'm not mounting 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' in Windows. I'm mounting it in the Linux VM.

Do you see the problem here? And you know why this is? Because you're not detailed enough from your first message, you give me pieces of information, and I got to look through the whole thread and try to decipher what it is that you mean/want to do.

So, how about you give me a step-by-step, click-by-click, play-by-play of what it is exactly that you're doing and how? Names, VMs, not generalities like "A VHD ...". I want the exact details of what VHD, who, when, where, the whole thing.

Like you were on the radio and you were describing a football game! :)
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
socratis
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Re: VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 7. Jun 2019, 09:19

socratis wrote:Like you were on the radio and you were describing a football game! :)
Would that be "GOAL!" or would that be "TOUCHDOWN!"? :-)

Okay, so I guess you've never seen anything like this before, so you need abundant details. Here goes...

I cautiously went step-by-step.
  • Host: Windows 10 v 1803
  • Guest: Linux Mint v 18
I used VBox to create 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd'.
  • I mounted it in Windows in order to partition (single part.) & format it (NTFS) -- at that time, it would mount in Windows.
  • I created a USB device in the VM and attached 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' to it.
  • I booted the VM and found the VHD mounted to '/media/mark/88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353'
  • I unmounted it in the Linux guest and formatted it (ext4) using 'gparted'.
  • I mounted it to '/media/mark/88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353' and untarred Palemoon v 28.5.0 into it.
  • I ran the newly installed Palemoon -- all was joy.
  • I used that setup for about a week.
Then, I updated Palemoon to v 28.5.2, which had just been released.
  • The Linux mount point was unaffected, but I couldn't run the new Palemoon. (Only in the last 2 hours have I been able to run the new Palemoon, but I think that's irrelevant. -- it turned out that when I untarred the new Palemoon, I should have wiped out the old one, first, not simply relied on overwriting during the untarring.)
  • Now, I can't mount 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' in Windows, but that's probably due to it being formatted in ext4, though I do find that hard to believe.
As an experiement, I created 'test.vhd' in Windows, formatted NTFS.
  • 'test.vhd' will not be recognized by VBox. VBox refuses to list it. But, hang on...
  • ...I only discovered the Virtual Media Manager this afternoon (er... yesterday afternoon, as it's now after midnight, US EST time zone).
  • I just successfully got Virtual Media Manager to 'see' 'test.vhd'.
  • My appolgies. 'test.vhd' is in the same directory with 'Mint.vdi'. I didn't know I needed to hit the [+] button to get Virtual Media Manager to 'see' it.
Since I'm currently in the Linux VM, I'll need to quit it in order to attach 'test.vhd' to it so that I can then run the Linux VM to see whether the guest will 'see' the Windows-created VHD (that is, 'test.vhd'). So, I'm quitting it right now and will be back in a few minutes with the results. While I'm gone, I'll also see whether the VBox VHD can be mounted in Windows (...it couldn't previously, but who knows?...) Please stay tuned to this station...

[a few minutes later]
I'm back.
  • The Linux guest was able to 'see' 'test.vhd' (which had a surprising mount point -- more on this a bit lower in this message).
  • And I was able to mount both 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' (the VBox-created VHD) & 'test.vhd' (the Windows-created VHD) in Windows.
  • Why Windows would not previously mount 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' is a mystery ...but it does, now.
My excuse for not being able to get VBox to 'see' 'test.vhd' is that the Virtual Media Manager is new, and it's not in the Tools section, so I didn't know it existed -- it's in the 'File' menu, which I never open.

About the 'test.vhd' mount point in the Linux guest:
'test.vhd' automounted in the guest here: '/media/mark/New Volume/', whereas 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' is automounted here: '/media/mark/88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353/'. Why are they so different? Well, I did a text search of my C: drive and found the string "88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353" embedded in 'Mint.vdi' and in 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd'. So, I assume that VBox sends a message to the Guest Additions that supplies the name of the mount point. That answers another of my questions, which was: Where did the directory name, '88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353', come from. It came from VBox (not Linux) via the slow speed channel that it maintains with the Guest Additions. Of course, that doesn't explain why the mount point for the Windows-created VHD is so simple ('New Volume') whereas the mount point for the VBox-created VHD is so obscure ('88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353').
None of this stuff that I've written here is in the User Manual. It should be.

My appolgies for all this. I hope you understand why I've made my mistakes and will show compassion. I lost a whole day on this, so I'm a loser.

Since the mount points are specified somewhere in the VM ('Mint.vdi'), I just can't willy-nilly change the directory name in Linux. Is there some way to specify new names for those mount points within VBox or within the Virtual Media Manager? I couldn't find a way.

Thank you for your attention and for your help, socratis. All seems joyful now.

...Nice added formatting, socratis. Regarding renaming the mount points, I reread one of your posts in another thread. You mention 'Shared Folder preferences'. I don't see how shared folders apply to this issue, but I'll look there. Thanks!
Last edited by socratis on 7. Jun 2019, 10:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed formatting.
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
Primary OS: MS Windows other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Linux Mint 18.3, Cinnamon

Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 7. Jun 2019, 10:20

Okay, I tried Shared Folders. It doesn't appear I can change the name of the mount point of a virtual HDD as the VHDs are not even listed in Shared Folders. Oh, well, it's not really important provided that the mount points are unique.

Bye, and thanks again.

Mark.
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
Primary OS: MS Windows other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Linux Mint 18.3, Cinnamon

Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby socratis » 7. Jun 2019, 10:25

abcdefgh wrote:Would that be "GOAL!" or would that be "TOUCHDOWN!"? :-)
GOAL of course, I said "football". The other one, the American one, should have been called "carry-ball", since that's what they essentially do. You can watch almost a whole game and not once will the ball be touched by any foot. What sort of foot-ball is that? Football wannabe? :P :)

abcdefgh wrote:I created a USB device in the VM and attached 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' to it.
Not sure why you wanted it to be a USB device, but sure...

abcdefgh wrote:I booted the VM and found the VHD mounted to '/media/mark/88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353'
That's the UUID of the VHD. And since ext. USB HDs are mounted sometimes by UUID and not by name, that's why you got this. Had you gone with a HD instead of a USB, your VHD would have been mounted in "/dev/sdb".

abcdefgh wrote:but that's probably due to it being formatted in ext4, though I do find that hard to believe.
Why? Windows can't mount ext3, or ext4, or HFS, or HFS+, or Btrfs. No surprise here...

abcdefgh wrote:Why Windows would not previously mount 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' is a mystery ...but it does, now.
Because it was in use by your VM and it was locked.

abcdefgh wrote:Is there some way to specify new names for those mount points within VBox or within the Virtual Media Manager? I couldn't find a way.
Why? What purpose would it serve?

abcdefgh wrote:All seems joyful now.
Glad you got it going. Marking as [Resolved].
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 7. Jun 2019, 11:02

socratis wrote:
abcdefgh wrote:Would that be "GOAL!" or would that be "TOUCHDOWN!"? :-)
GOAL of course, I said "football". The other one, the American one, should have been called "carry-ball", since that's what they essentially do. You can watch almost a whole game and not once will the ball be touched by any foot. What sort of foot-ball is that? Football wannabe? :P :)

Foot use in American Football: Kickoffs, punts, extra points, and accidental foot faults. :-)
But seriously, American Football is to European Football as chess is to checkers.
abcdefgh wrote:I created a USB device in the VM and attached 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' to it.
Not sure why you wanted it to be a USB device, but sure...

The User Manual says to attach VHDs to virtual USB controllers. It warns not to attach to IDE or SATA or SCSI.
abcdefgh wrote:I booted the VM and found the VHD mounted to '/media/mark/88c55591-ccd9-422c-8d91-0d23bc2bc353'
That's the UUID of the VHD.

Actually, that's not the UUID of the VHD. The UUID of the VHD is '88547b35-b43b-4fac-8671-b55688d6deff'. But no matter...
And since ext. USB HDs are mounted sometimes by UUID and not by name, that's why you got this. Had you gone with a HD instead of a USB, your VHD would have been mounted in "/dev/sdb".

See above reason for not using HD.
abcdefgh wrote:but that's probably due to it being formatted in ext4, though I do find that hard to believe.
Why? Windows can't mount ext3, or ext4, or HFS, or HFS+, or Btrfs. No surprise here...

Windows should be able to mount a VHD regardless.... and it did.
abcdefgh wrote:Why Windows would not previously mount 'Palemoon portable (Linux).vhd' is a mystery ...but it does, now.
Because it was in use by your VM and it was locked.

Hey! I'm not as dumb as I look, you know. I had shut down the VM.
abcdefgh wrote:Is there some way to specify new names for those mount points within VBox or within the Virtual Media Manager? I couldn't find a way.
Why? What purpose would it serve?

Not much. It would make typing on the command line a little easier and it would make the purpose of the mount point (for example: 'Palemoon') plain to see. That's all.
abcdefgh wrote:All seems joyful now.
Glad you got it going. Marking as [Resolved].

Well done, Sir!
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
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Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
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Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby socratis » 7. Jun 2019, 11:42

I only have one issue with your reply:
abcdefgh wrote:The User Manual says to attach VHDs to virtual USB controllers. It warns not to attach to IDE or SATA or SCSI.

Do you have a reference for that? Where exactly does it say that a VHD should only be attached to a USB controller? Because USB controllers are relatively new, VHDs have been supported in VirtualBox for ever! If there's a reference like that in the User Manual, it's 100% wrong and should be addressed. Yesterday...

PS.
abcdefgh wrote:Kickoffs, punts, extra points, and accidental foot faults.
Sure. But as I said, you can go on for almost a whole game without any of those "special events" taking place... ;)
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 7. Jun 2019, 23:38

socratis wrote:
abcdefgh wrote:Kickoffs, punts, extra points, and accidental foot faults.
Sure. But as I said, you can go on for almost a whole game without any of those "special events" taking place... ;)

Well, we here in the DisUnited States can enjoy both (American) Football & Soccer (i.e., European Football). I guess that makes us special, eh?
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
Primary OS: MS Windows other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Linux Mint 18.3, Cinnamon

Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby abcdefgh » 7. Jun 2019, 23:52

socratis wrote:I only have one issue with your reply:
abcdefgh wrote:The User Manual says to attach VHDs to virtual USB controllers. It warns not to attach to IDE or SATA or SCSI.

Do you have a reference for that? Where exactly does it say that a VHD should only be attached to a USB controller? ...

Well, I couldn't find it. Maybe I was told in a forum, either here or Linux Mint. It surprised me, but the assertion was very emphatic. It was bogus, eh?
I'm actually markfilipak (which somehow became 'markfilipak2', then 'abcdefgh'). I've been here since 15 Jul 2012 but lost my name during the great shift to SSO (single sign-on) during 2017, and have not been able to recover it.
abcdefgh
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 22. Jul 2018, 03:29
Primary OS: MS Windows other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Linux Mint 18.3, Cinnamon

Re: [Resolved] VHD v. VHD

Postby socratis » 7. Jun 2019, 23:54

abcdefgh wrote:It was bogus, eh?

As bogus as bogus comes...
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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