Feedback & comment to the Administrators and Moderators

[mpack]

I don't believe banning was merited, but the posts were clearly off topic and unhelpful IMHO, hence I would feel no guilt about deleting them.

[loukingjr]

At the end, you wanted to delete his messages and Lou wanted him banned

Maybe just for a week (or two)

[ssawgift]

Okay, since you are in control, you win. Because my English is not good enough, I cannot express what I think about this incident. I just want to say, it's normal. When a guy in a company ruins something, others especially in the same group have to cover him up even though they know it's bad. And I hope VB will be as good as it is now. Period.

[mpack]

Yep, and whingers unconstructuve moaning about the stuff they got for free is also, unfortunately, very normal.

[klaus]

Please. It's not helping anyone to endlessly repeat the positions, and this applies to both sides! The moderators are critical towards VirtualBox and Oracle, and likewise Oracle and the dev team sometimes disagree with the moderators. The moderators are volunteers, not connected with Oracle, which gives them an intentional independence.

I'm asking to return to constructive approaches, because I do see a genuine core to the initial complaint: snapshots in 5.1 are broken for specific VM configurations. That's something we're working on, and it would be much appreciated if you could help us there with information about your VM configs and what's exactly going wrong. The bug isn't as widespread as you're hinting, because many people have been using snapshots without trouble.

It should be worth a little of your effort that Oracle is letting people use a non-crippled product for free, without selling your data or plastering your screen with ads (because that's what pretty much all "free" products out there are doing). Of course we can only ask for your cooperation, and it's your decision.

[ssawgift]

At last, the reply from someone of the controlling panel sounds at least 'neutral'.

I had intended not to reply to this incident anymore, but I'm annoyed by the fact some moderators were using mockery and personal abusing words toward me. My posts were only *inappropriate* regarding the VB software, but they used their power as moderators to mock on me. If they are just normal forum users, I could simply ignore them.

I strongly suggest removing them from moderators group and this will help improve Oracle's image as an international corporation.

Please. It's not helping anyone to endlessly repeat the positions, and this applies to both sides! The moderators are critical towards VirtualBox and Oracle, and likewise Oracle and the dev team sometimes disagree with the moderators. The moderators are volunteers, not connected with Oracle, which gives them an intentional independence.

I'm asking to return to constructive approaches, because I do see a genuine core to the initial complaint: snapshots in 5.1 are broken for specific VM configurations. That's something we're working on, and it would be much appreciated if you could help us there with information about your VM configs and what's exactly going wrong. The bug isn't as widespread as you're hinting, because many people have been using snapshots without trouble.

It should be worth a little of your effort that Oracle is letting people use a non-crippled product for free, without selling your data or plastering your screen with ads (because that's what pretty much all "free" products out there are doing). Of course we can only ask for your cooperation, and it's your decision.

[ssawgift]

Does your moaning about me help anything, especially as a moderator?

Yep, and whingers unconstructuve moaning about the stuff they got for free is also, unfortunately, very normal.

[klaus]

I asked both sides to stop repeating the old issues, and you're the first to ignore this. You're actively picking on an individual, i.e. acting exactly in the same way as the person you're criticizing. This is behavior which I'm not tolerating any more, and as you don't take the friendly reminder seriously: this is the final warning. If you don't stop repeating this unconstructive topic then I'll ban you. Is that now clear enough?

Is your moaning about me help anything, especially as a moderator?

Yep, and whingers unconstructuve moaning about the stuff they got for free is also, unfortunately, very normal.

[klaus]

Seems we can't agree - I don't see any (ab)use of special power, because anyone else could've written replies to your messages. You can't deny that your messages are highly provocative, and that means you have to deal with the consequences. The moderators are there to take action if necessary, and I consider their actions so far as extremely cautious. They could've deleted all your unconstructive posts, but they decided to let you have your say. That you can't stop repeating your provocations and that the moderators are reacting by repeating the words which you consider abusive shows to me that both sides are exactly equally ignoring good manners, and that this has to end. I will help if necessary by deleting each and every message which again repeats the unconstructive positions, and take additional measures like banning users. I ask everyone to get over this issue.

At last, the reply from someone of the controlling panel sounds at least 'neutral'.

I had intended not to reply to this incident anymore, but I'm annoyed by the fact some moderators were using mockery and personal abusing words toward me. My posts were only *inappropriate* regarding the VB software, but they used their power as moderators to mock on me. If they are just normal forum users, I could simply ignore them.

I strongly suggest removing them from moderators group and this will help improve Oracle's image as an international corporation.

[ssawgift]

That's why I added quotes around 'neutral', it only seemed that.

IMO, moderators do *have* the power to delete or even ban forum users. I have no doubt on that. But they should just only do that other than adding some mocking words to the person. As for anyone that *might* reply like those moderators, I already said - I usually ignore them (pitty this never happened even once in my life).

Again, I know what the result could be when I posted the first 'provocative' post. What I expected is you either delete the posts or even ban me, but don't abuse their power to add mocking words.

Real period. Just ban me.

Seems we can't agree - I don't see any (ab)use of special power, because anyone else could've written replies to your messages. You can't deny that your messages are highly provocative, and that means you have to deal with the consequences. The moderators are there to take action if necessary, and I consider their actions so far as extremely cautious. They could've deleted all your unconstructive posts, but they decided to let you have your say. That you can't stop repeating your provocations and that the moderators are reacting by repeating the words which you consider abusive shows to me that both sides are exactly equally ignoring good manners, and that this has to end. I will help if necessary by deleting each and every message which again repeats the unconstructive positions, and take additional measures like banning users. I ask everyone to get over this issue.

At last, the reply from someone of the controlling panel sounds at least 'neutral'.

I had intended not to reply to this incident anymore, but I'm annoyed by the fact some moderators were using mockery and personal abusing words toward me. My posts were only *inappropriate* regarding the VB software, but they used their power as moderators to mock on me. If they are just normal forum users, I could simply ignore them.

I strongly suggest removing them from moderators group and this will help improve Oracle's image as an international corporation.

[mpack]

Real period. Just ban me.

Done. I'm glad we were finally able to agree the best course of action.

[loukingjr]

Thank you.

[yurtesen]

I just realized that I received a warning that I made a personal insult, with a link to the post (below)

Can anybody tell which tet in post -> viewtopic.php?f=3&p=376580#p376580 <- is a personal insult?

I don't quite understand what in my text is an insult. I just stated the facts as they occured and I don't understand how it is acceptable/allowed that a moderator responds with annoying/insulting/threatening texts like the post before and after my post in that case.

This is abuse of "moderator" powers. Unfortunately, I have to say, this is the worst forum I have been to. I never had this sort of responses in any forum before (and you can probably check because I have same username in most forums).

This was quite enough for me...so have fun alienating people, it is probably the best thing you can do for virtualbox....

[socratis]

I was the one that issued the warning, I feel that I should reply and let you know the logic behind that decision.

But wait, I already did reply, right after the post that you linked to! This is not about that specific post, do not focus on that one post specifically, it's about of a pattern of posts and behavior, both here and in the bugtracker. I detailed them, I don't think I should be repeating myself.

Issuing a warning is not an abuse of power in no moderator's dictionary, it's part of the job.


PS. I moved your post from "Suggestions" to the "Feedback & comment to the Administrators and Moderators".

[mpack]

The moderately long post you refer to contained almost nothing of substance, it consisted almost entirely of an attack on another participant - and unless you are completely stupid then you already know that.

I didn't see where moderatorial powers were used at all, never mind abused.