Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby mphuff » 4. Nov 2009, 15:14

NeBlackCat wrote:Anyone have any luck with QEMU/KQEMU inside a vbox vm?

I'm running a Ubuntu/i386 host and a Debian 5.0/amd64 guest. Tried setting up kvm and kqemu in the guest OS and got this message
Setting up kvm (72+dfsg-5~lenny3) ...
Your system does not have the CPU extensions required to use KVM. Not doing anything. failed!
Which is not surprising.

"info kqemu" returns a message about support not being compiled, which sounds like I'd have to recompile qemu. kqemu itself, though, compiled and ran just fine (as far as I could tell).

It just doesn't work with the version of qemu I have.

I was able to run qemu (sans kqemu) and install an openbsd 4.5/i386 vm with no problems.
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby NeBlackCat » 10. Nov 2009, 08:00

Sasquatch wrote:
aeichner wrote:This is not entirely true. If you have a processor with nested paging capabilities you can run VBox inside VBox. You can't use hardware virtualization in the inner VM though but raw mode will work just fine. This method was used to get VBox running on FreeBSD.

But how many people has a nested paging capable CPU? AFAIK, only the Core i7 from Intel and some high end AMD's have it. Some users don't even have hardware-v available (either CPU or motherboard that doesn't support it).


Anyone with one from this list:

    All Intel Core i7 parts
    Intel Xeon W35xx
    Intel Xeon L55xx, E55xx, X55xx and W55xx
    AMD Athlon X2 7xxx
    All AMD Athlon II parts
    All AMD Phenom and Phenom II parts
    AMD Opteron x3xx parts

That's certainly not just high end amongst the AMDs. I guess people who are interested in nested virtualization are so for specialist reasons, and the above gives plenty of choice for a hardware platform to do it on (as long as the software works).
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby Technologov » 12. Nov 2009, 13:26

Nested Virtualization is *not* Nested Paging. Only nested paging is supported by the CPUs listed above.

Nested Virtualization must be done in software. See:
http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/4032

-Technologov
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby NeBlackCat » 12. Nov 2009, 18:03

Technologov wrote:Nested Virtualization is *not* Nested Paging. Only nested paging is supported by the CPUs listed above.

Nested Virtualization must be done in software. See:
http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/4032

-Technologov


But that's talking about virtualising VT-d inside the VM, which is something else yet.

My understanding from the above posts is that if you have hardware nested paging (eg. AMD RVI, present on most of it's current mainstream CPUs these days) then vbox can run under itself, albeit not with vt-d (in the vm).

Is that right?
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby Technologov » 12. Nov 2009, 18:16

>Is that right?

Nope.
This request is about virtualizing VT-x and AMD-V inside guest. Not VT-d and not AMD IOMMU.

For that, we have a separate request:
http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/5252
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby Technologov » 5. Feb 2010, 12:36

one users asked about ESX under VBox...

Maybe it could be possible to run software virtualization under hardware virtualization; at least I do not see technical obstacles for this scenario.
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby abcuser » 8. Feb 2010, 20:17

Technologov wrote:one users asked about ESX under VBox...

What about vice versa? ESX host, Linux installed under ESX, VirtualBox installed under Linux and running Windows XP as VirtualBox guest? Has some one tried this? Is it working? I am not interested in performance and other stuff, just does it work or not? Is there any hardware requirements that it will work or any other requirement?
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby bj0 » 10. Feb 2010, 22:11

Another interesting use would be to try this:
http://virtualkd.sysprogs.org/

If you're running on a Linux host, you would need a Windows Guest to do the debugging, and a nested Windows Guest to be the debugee.

I tried to get this running, but I can't even get started. I installed VirtualBox 3.1.2 inside the Windows Guest, but simply trying to launch the VirtualBox interface causes my VM to lock up.
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby TiTs.net » 23. Mar 2010, 22:14

Hello !

Hum, I see this topic because i would try ESXi4 on my pc without reinstall it

So I tried on virtualbox and it "work !" I've got an error on the installation, but after, I launch again the VM, and it start !

My config :

Ubuntu 9.10
VirtualBox OSS 3.0.8 From ubuntu reposit

Vmconfig :

Linux 2.4 ( 64bit)
2048gb RAM
VT-x / AMD - V : ON
Nested Paging : ON ( Pagination enchevêtrée in french )
PAE/NX : ON
Nothing else special


Meybe it's gonna be usefull for someone ... so i post it there ...

I hope my English is understandable ...! :D
Attachments
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby Martin » 24. Mar 2010, 11:52

I think you can install and run ESXi in a Virtualbox VM, but you will not be able to run a VM inside the ESXi.
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby abcuser » 24. Mar 2010, 19:10

Martin wrote:I think you can install and run ESXi in a Virtualbox VM, but you will not be able to run a VM inside the ESXi.

What about vice versa:
- ESXi as virtualizer
- install Linux inside ESXi
- install VirtualBox inside Linux
- run Windows virtual environment inside VirtualBox
is this working?
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby bornmw » 25. Mar 2010, 16:56

Hi!

We develop an application that we deploy as a VirtualBox image which eliminates most of installation issues for us.
But more and more clients don't want to provide a physical machine for us to deploy our app to.
Question to you guys: will it be possible to run a VirtualBox OSE headless inside Parallels (or Xen) VM with a Linux guest?

Thanks!
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby bornmw » 25. Mar 2010, 17:16

bornmw wrote:Question to you guys: will it be possible to run a VirtualBox OSE headless inside Parallels (or Xen) VM with a Linux guest?


Already have an answer for Parallels Virtuozzo... just had a chat with VPS provider Tektonic support and they assured me that it's not possible:

Bruce: Hello How can I help you?
Oleg: I'm considering to order a VPS but for a specific purpose - do you know if I will be able to run a VirtualBox headless on it?
Oleg: we develop an application that we distribute as a VirtualBox image and we need a development/test server
Oleg: so we consider a VPS
Bruce: Unfortauntely I don't believe virtual box will un inside virutozzo based VPSs
Bruce: run*
Oleg: are you sure? I seen some reports that people were able to run VB in Xen
Bruce: This is not xen. It is virtualized in a different manner. Due to this you cannot run further virtulization inside our VPSs
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby larrycai » 8. Apr 2010, 04:28

I am quite interesting on this topic as well, one use case is to create virtual image in virtual machines for daily build.

The building system is on virtual machine due to company policy (??)

Then I want this system to generate virtual image for our applications automatically, verification can be done later without installation to speed up.

And furthermore, I can verify more Linux OS deployment without real machines.
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Re: Virtualization inside a virtualizer, discussions

Postby forall » 11. May 2010, 00:11

Hi,

Did someone managed to run XenServer 5.5 update 2 in virtualbox 3.1.8?
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