TerryE wrote:This one has been discussed on a number of occasions. Have a search as below to find them. This is technically possible, just the same way as 32 bit s/w emulation was. However, to develop the JiT code patching so support 64 bit code is a major piece of development work. Given that both Intel and AMD are moving to include AMD-V / VT-x on all their future CPUs and that H/W virtualisation is fast overhauling S/W translation techniques in terms of performance, there just isn't the benefit case for doing all this development. Sorry.
If you need 64bit S/W emulation then some of the VMware products support this.
efortin wrote: It has been said by the developers of Virtual Box that their software virtualization is marginaly slower, and sometimes faster, than VT-x and AMD-V. And given some benchmark I've seen, I tend to agree.
But sadly you aren't the one with the chequebook to fund this development workefortin wrote:So in my opinion, this would be worth the work.
so it used VT-x for this purpose, but it the case of AMD CPUsIntel EM64T CPUs do not have segmentation support in long mode. If the Intel EM64T CPU is VT-capable, it comes with hardware virtualization support (Intel's Virtualization Technology). This hardware virtualization support allows Workstation and VMware Server to work around the lack of segmentation, making it possible to run 64-bit guest operating systems on Intel EM64T VT-capable CPUs.
So VMware does support Opteron E-series, but AMD-V was only introduced with Opteron F-Series.Segmentation support is missing from the initial AMD64 processors (that is, revision C and earlier) while running in long mode ... As a result, AMD64 processors must be revision D or later to run 64-bit guest operating systems.
TerryE wrote:So VMware does support Opteron E-series, but AMD-V was only introduced with Opteron F-Series.
fhj52 wrote:There are millions of Opteron Rev E CPUs out there. Support them the way they should be: 64-bit (guest) OS! ... MS XPx64 Host & Linux 32-bit guest but I WANT MY 64-bit GUEST! as MS 64-bit guest on 64-bit Linux host. Using dual Opteron 254 & 285 (Rev E4) systems in (degraded) i*86 uniprocessor mode.
does not fly with me.Sun Microsystems, Inc. wrote:You need a 64-bit processor with hardware virtualization support (see chapter 1.2, Software vs. hardware virtualization (VT-x and AMD-V), page 10).
Sun Microsystems, Inc. wrote:While VirtualBox does support the hardware features listed above, they are optional: you can enable or disable hardware virtualization individiually for each virtual machine.
In fact, depending on the workload, VirtualBox’s software virtualization may even be faster than hardware virtualization. Other virtualization products that require hardware virtualization are usually much less sophisticated and tuned compared to VirtualBox. With VT-x and AMD-V, a special CPU environment has to be entered in order to execute guest code and whenever activity of the VMM is required, this environment has to be left and then entered again. This can be an expensive operation and in many circumstances, the benefits of hardware virtualization may not outweigh the performance penalty.
fhj52 wrote:For goodness sakes, it is not like we are asking VirtualBox to support 64-bit OS on 32-bit CPU! This is doable. It needs to be done so please do it.
Well, sure there is! Every box running 64-bit CPU is a potential customer. Who pays for it now is a Sun internal discussion but I do not believe that the technical work is that involved ...unless, unless, the issue is really cleaning up all the code that was hacked into V'Box(that should not have been but was for, I'm sure at the time, arguably good reasons).TerryE wrote:fhj52 wrote:For goodness sakes, it is not like we are asking VirtualBox to support 64-bit OS on 32-bit CPU! This is doable. It needs to be done so please do it.
Of course it is doable, technically. I've discussed this before here and on other topics, but doing so will take a not inconsiderable bit of development work. So who is going to pay for it? Where is the market? Where is the revenue stream for Sun to do this? AFAIK, there isn't one.
Current AMD processors are not where the market is at this time. Holy smokes ... there is, comparatively, no market for new CPU from any company. People and companies don't buy new systems just because they are new, especially business customers. Heck fire, there are *still* many Pentium SERVERS. ... Point being that there is a moving distribution curve that contains all systems. Barcelona and Nehalem are barely in it(as would be Pentium or, e.g., Transmeta CPU). Surely the new processors will move the older ones out but this will take some years. Current market economics are such that it is not going to be as fast as might be in better times.TerryE wrote:Current AMD processors support AMD-V, so this is a historic problem.
Now Terry, that is a wild (& incorrect) assumption. ... All systems here are workstation|server class SMP(multiple processors) and *all* such systems can carry at least 16GB of mainboard RAM; most can have 32GB or more. Now, TBH, I don't have 32GB installed because I have not found a good reason; i.e., no 64-bit on 64-bit virtualization that satisfies my needs. What I do has not extended past the 4GB, though it would with V'box or VMware.TerryE wrote:If you have an only Opteron Rev E motherboard then you probably don't have enough memory to support a guest with >4Gb RAM so why do you need a 64bit guest OS now. By the time that you do need to use 64bit guests you will have replaced your motherboard.
I assume that Sun, like Novell, Microsoft, Citrix and any other organization|business that is not non-profit are all trying to make a buck. Let's not forget that this is an *Innotek* product which was always free for personal use, the same as it is now. Sun only became involved (by purchase) to move into the Virtualization business so that they could offer their commercial businesses a Virtualization product. If their only business is Sun Servers running the newest AMD & Intel CPUs, no wonder their stock is in the tank. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy stock in a company that is devoted to much less than 50% of the market(dare I say less than 25%?) ...so I don't believe that is the case. Sun is surely supporting many commercial enterprises with REV E Opterons as well as the older 64-bit Intel.TerryE wrote:Sun isn't a charity.
I'm evaluating it. ... You are correct that VMware Workstation 6.5 for Linux (or MS Windows) as electronic download for $94.50 (this month) is a fairly good price(it should be the MSRP, IMO). However, as I said, clearly I thought, at this time " ... I like V'Box more. ". That may change: Attitudes from Sun that making the code correct is too much time & effort(cost) is certainly a good reason to make VirtualBox an "also played" in the Virtualization Game.TerryE wrote:Why not just take VMware's half-price offer?
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