Windows fails at install

[TheMonarch]

Hi everyone. I'm hoping someone can help me get around this particular roadblock...

I'm trying to install a Windows 10 VM on my M2 (Pro) MacBook Pro. I've installed several VBox VMs in the past, but not since the Apple Silicon came along, so it's been a few years... The VBox install seemed to go fine, and I think I set up Windows 10 correctly in the VM settings, handing it 6 processors (of 10) and 12GB of RAM (of 32.) The problem is that once I get the VM initially set up and I select Start, everything looks Ok until I get to the Windows log, at which point it sits there for quite some time until it dies with the following error:

A critical error has occurred while running the virtual machine and the machine execution has been stopped.
For help, please see the Community section on virtualbox(dot)org or your support contract. Please provide the contents of the log file VBox. log and the image file Box. png, which you can find in the / Users/jdc/VirtualBox VMs/B23/Logs directory, as well as a description of what you were doing when this error happened. Note that you can also access the above files by selecting Show Log from the Machine menu of the main VirtualBox window.
Press OK if you want to power off the machine or press Ignore if you want to leave it as is for debugging. Please note that debugging requires special knowledge and tools, so it is recommended to press OK now.

I tried attaching the log file, but naturally 464kb is too large for the forum settings... The ISO is Win10_21H2_English_x64.iso and my MacOS is Ventura, 13.3.1 (a) (22E772610a).

Any help or tips would be appreciated!

[scottgus1]

Windows 10 VM on my M2

That's a killer. Please see M1/M2 Mac 7.0 Beta Status. Virtualbox won't run modern OS's like Windows 10 on M1/M2 Macs yet, if ever.

[TheMonarch]

Thanks! I was hoping that problem was limited to Win11 but apparently I read too quickly... Looks like I need to buy Parallels after all. Yuck.

[scottgus1]

Check carefully about Parallels et al. Unless you get an ARM version of Windows to put in the Parallels VM, then whatever regular x86-64 Windows that runs on Intel/AMD PCs you put in will have to be translated to ARM for the M2 to run it. This translation may be slow.

[TheMonarch]

Yeah I always associate Parallels with being slow anyway!... I'm just looking to run some very basic ham radio apps, so hopefully just simple software that runs really slow connections anyway, not like games or anything processor or graphic-intensive for sure. And if it's too painful I can use my actual Win11 laptop if I must. Thanks again.

[multiOS]

FWIW neither Parallels nor VMWare Fusion can install/run x86_x64 Virtual Machines on Mac M1/M2 machines. They run ARM on ARM (with some limitations) and x86_64 on Intel only.

Sources:
Parallels: https://kb.parallels.com/en/128914
VMWare Fusion: https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/90364

[TheMonarch]

Good to know. Or rather, bad to know? Looks like Win11 laptop it is, sigh... Anyway, thanks again.

[mpack]

The concept is actually very easy: if your program is designed for an Intel compatible CPU, buy a PC with an Intel compatible processor. Nothing less will provide a practical solution. And vice versa if your goal is to run an ARM app.

And I don't think you realize just how slow a processor simulation is. Straight CPU simulation will be at least hundreds and perhaps thousands of times slower than native speeds, and this is ignoring the complication of an app that runs on multiple cores. Simulation has in the past been good for debugging drivers and the like, but not for running user code. People cling to the promise of dynamic translation, i.e. compile Intel code into ARM one time, first time the code is run. But that would only recover some of the performance (*), and with the complex and ever changing behaviour of Intel CPUs I don't really believe it will ever be practical. It's a gimmicky half lie meant to tempt gullible types into buying the wrong PC for their needs. I.e. a bait and switch.

(*) High performance needs you to understand what the code is trying to do, and do it the best way for the new target. No automatic tool can understand intentions by looking at the back end output of a linker.

Bottom line: the only time you'll find simulated CPU performance acceptable would be if the code is mostly doing no work anyway, e.g. it spends almost all of its time waiting on user input.

[loukingjr]

Good to know. Or rather, bad to know? Looks like Win11 laptop it is, sigh... Anyway, thanks again.

FWIW, I run Windows 11 in Parallels Desktop on my M1 MacBook Air. Takes one or two seconds to boot and the performance is better than an Asus laptop I have running Windows 10.

[fth0]

I run Windows 11 in Parallels Desktop on my M1 MacBook Air.

The Arm version of Windows 11 (Microsoft: Options for using Windows 11 with Mac® computers with Apple® M1® and M2™ chips), right?

Did you notice any drawbacks yet? (Except not being able to use VirtualBox, of course. )

[loukingjr]

Yes indeed. Parallels Desktop 18 will automatically download and install it. They made some deal with Microsoft.

Drawbacks? Nothing I've noticed but I mainly did it just to have it. I don't really use Windows.

[mpack]

and the performance is better than an Asus laptop I have running Windows 10.

Rather poor quality anecdotal evidence I'd say. The performance you get will very much depend on what exactly you as an individual are doing at the time. And if it's the same app on both cases then what is the quality of the port? Does Win11 for ARM support the entire feature set of Win11? I rather doubt it.

[loukingjr]

and the performance is better than an Asus laptop I have running Windows 10.

Rather poor quality anecdotal evidence I'd say. The performance you get will very much depend on what exactly you as an individual are doing at the time. And if it's the same app on both cases then what is the quality of the port? Does Win11 for ARM support the entire feature set of Win11? I rather doubt it.

Of course. The perfomance always depends on what one is doing, whether using a VM or not. But as I said, I really don't use Windows 11 so I can't say if it supports the entire feature set or not.

If you have some feature you may think is not supported I can always check.

[mpack]

If you have some feature you may think is not supported I can always check.

Well, I do a lot of video processing, so how about, say: the quality of the OpenCL drivers for a high end NVidia RTX graphics card? Is that available on M1/M2 yet?

Seriously, it's having the entire Intel ecosystem available that's important to me (drivers, github apps, special purpose VMs, gcc devtools). Nosing around that ecosystem has been both my job and my hobby for many years. The fact that a particular Office app runs quite well (or not) on an ARM port of Windows... just comes nowhere on my personal priority ranking.

[loukingjr]

If you have some feature you may think is not supported I can always check.

Well, I do a lot of video processing, so how about, say: the quality of the OpenCL drivers for a high end NVidia RTX graphics card? Is that available on M1/M2 yet?

The Windows 10 ASUS laptop I have doesn't support high end NVdivia RTX graphics cards either.