VB7.04 on MacOS Ventura M1 Pro & Centos 7 Launch Fail

[Mike L]

I haven't seen this issue yet. I've got a new MacBook Pro 16" on an Apple Silicon M1Max chip (MacOS Ventura 13.1), trying to run Centos 7 (RedHat 7.x (64-bit) with VB Version 7.0.4_BETA4 r154605 (Qt6.3.0) - latest version, no additional upgrades available.

The VB system loads, but nothing works using a downloaded CentOS-7-aarch64-Everything-2009.iso image (IDE Primary Device 0) with SATA Port 0: 2GB vdi. (Config screenshot attached)

When I attempt to launch, it complains "The virtual machine failed to boot. That might be caused by a missing operating system or misconfigured boot order. Mounting an operating system install DVD might solve this problem. Selecting an ISO file will attempt to mount it after the dialog is closed." I try to reselect the DVD image of the ISO file, but still won't boot.

Any ideas? Am I missing something basic? Or will VB not yet run on Apple Silicon M1 Max?

TIA.

[Mike L]

Quick Update:

Went to x86_64 image and it seems to like this. I thought this was now an ARM_64 environment, but apparently, I was wrong.

Installing now, I'll update if/when it completes.

[mpack]

The issue is well covered. See the sticky topic at the top of this forum.

[Mike L]

Hi mpack,

I'm new to this forum, and only been using VB for about 6 months, on an older MacBook Pro (2018) where everything ran fine.

I looked over old posts but haven't seen anything that clearly says "M1Pro Chip" with the configuration I'm trying to run. Hence, my request. I'm not a wizard at this, so it's entirely possible I missed something, but just looking for a little help. If you can point me to a post that let's me know what the issue is, or what won't work for now, I'd be grateful.

I tried to use an x86 iso file and that wouldn't work. an x86 DVD iso wouldn't work. I just need to know if I can get this to work, and if so, which iso Centos 7 I'll need. If it's not yet supported, that would save time and let me know where I stand.

Thanks.

[scottgus1]

haven't seen anything that clearly says "M1Pro Chip"

How about the sticky called "M1/M2 Mac 7.0 Beta Status"? There is an M1 in there....

[Mike L]

Well, there is a mention of M1/M2, and I saw that one, but it speaks to M1/M2, not M1 Pro, and mentions Windows XP, and not Centos 7. It's also from August through November.

Is there any expectation that there's a date/release for VB working on M1Pro? I'm surprised that Oracle is not working on this, since it's no longer a new release, and it's the direction of all Mac's.

Does Oracle have any comment?

[scottgus1]

Oracle's comment is in the sticky, from the administrators. Forum guru MultiOS has got a pre-installed 2-processor 32-bit XP going, but not Windows 10 or 11.

it speaks to M1/M2, not M1 Pro

Cheddar vs gorganzola. It's an M1. We won't be updating stickies with each new processor that comes out, until someone verifiably reports running something on the new processor that won't run on the old ones.

[multiOS]

To confirm scottgus1's comments

The M1 Pro is just a variant of the M1 processor, so what doesn't work on M1 isn't going to work on variants based on the same architecture. - My tests were made on an M1 MAX which I was able to spend some time on.

While exploring the current capabilities of the VirtualBox Mac Beta; and also the other virtualisation software currently available for Apple's M1/M2 series CPUs, my experience and research so far is that none can currently provide a complete solution. IME, VirtualBox Beta (7.0.4) which, at the current state of development, relies on emulation/translation of x86 commands, appears to do a decent job of running early 32-bit Windows 32-bit OS (up to Windows XP) at near native performance, but I haven't had the opportunity yet to test with any later Windows 32 bit OS versions; and nor have I tried with 32-bit Linux versions of a similarly early vintage. Attempting to install or run any 64-bit (x86) or ARM OS variant of any type has, so far, proved unsuccessful, which is precisely what I would expect; and confirms the views expressed by those who contributed to the advisory thread.

[Mike L]

I appreciate all the replies. I get the minor differences between processors, etc., but being new to this Forum, I kinda assumed that something had changed and that Apple Silicon would have been supported - still very surprised that it's not.

And will have to turn to other solutions for virtualization - or find a different process for my needs. 2 others may work, so I'll have to do more investigating.
Thanks.

[mpack]

I kinda assumed ... that Apple Silicon would have been supported - still very surprised that it's not.

The M1 processor has ARM cores, meaning Intel code has to run in a simulator, an entirely different animal than a hypervisor. I'll be amazed if it ever gets acceptable performance and full compatibility when running modern Intel code in a simulator.

VirtualBox could however become an ARM hypervisor one day, running ARM based OS's (MacOS for M1, Raspberry Pi OS etc). However, the problem then is what peripheral hardware to simulate? There is no ecosystem of standardized hardware as there is in the PC world.

Also, these forums are quite well moderated. If a topic is still stickied, it still applies.

[Mike L]

Being a guy who just wanted to run on my new Mac, what I ran on the old one, I honestly didn't think much about the real differences - just assumed that it was a "write the code, it's just another processor...". I want what I want, when I want it...

Good to understand what's involved. And nice to be on a forum when responses are rapid and provide context and understanding - that's not always the case.

I guess I'm going to have to find a new way to accomplish what I'm looking to do, which is to run Centos 7 on my new Mac. I need it to run a dev version of my Magento site (on an equivalent platform to my hosting service for the live site), and to execute some data-moving apps locally, so I can debug them and run changes to my large data sets, and these are currently in php.

I may be able to run them in my Mac Terminal, or vmWare, or I may have to split environments for each need. But I guess things are now changed from the old MacBook Pro. Sometimes progress isn't always progress

[multiOS]

@MikeL

Good luck with your 'search' but please read closely when you explore the alternatives, especially if testing the commercial options. If you search deeply enough you will find. even those that currently supply a 'universal' solution, for virtualisation all say you need an ARM version of the OS to be virtualised if your Host has a Mac M1/2 processor; and an x86 ISO installation needs a real Intel Processor. That pretty much limits the choice of suitable OS to Windows 11 for ARM (Windows 10 for ARM was abandoned) and Linux distributions that provide an ARM variant - most currently appear to be Debian/Ubuntu-based.

I don't think CentOS provides an ARM option (Fedora from the same broad RedHat Linux family does), so you may be limited to a software option that can, as mpack stated, emulate/simulate an Intel CPU and hardware on ARM CPUs which will definitely impact on performance. Hint: AFAIK this currently limits the choice to an option which is built around use of the Apple hypervisor to support true virtualisation and QEMU to provide the required emulation features.

On the positive side Apple's M1/M2 eco-system does seem to be able to run multiple virtualisation applications at the same time, which is more than a little difficult on Intel

[mpack]

On the positive side Apple's M1/M2 eco-system does seem to be able to run multiple virtualisation applications at the same time, which is more than a little difficult on Intel

Not really, I think. AFAIK the Apple hypervisor situation is exactly analagous to the Hyper-v situation on WinTel PCs. There too the Hyper-v engine can have multiple clients, because none of them are the real hypervisor.

[multiOS]

Good Point, I was miss-comparing. What I should probably have said/added is Apple's imposed use of the macOS-based hypervisor doesn't present the same issues/conflicts that often appear when Hyper-V is active on Windows, or KVM on Linux, when trying to run other alternative Virtualisation apps (either individually or at the same time).

[mpack]

What I should probably have said/added is Apple's imposed use of the macOS-based hypervisor doesn't present the same issues/conflicts

Au contraire! I have seen exactly the same issues appearing on these forums when people try to install an older version of VirtualBox not designed to cooperate with the MacOS hypervisor. I don't participate on VMware or Parallels forums, but I'd be willing to bet that the same thing is reported there. The causes are the same: the old cowboy days when apps can talk directly to the hardware are going away now that major OS vendors are incorporating a standardized mechanism for those functions. For now Windows and Linux platforms (don't know about Mac) allow you to turn off the built in hypervisor, but I wouldn't be surprised if that option becomes increasingly impractical in the future.