VirtualBox has been a trusty companion for the past decade, but our time together is drawing to an end. Work upgraded us to Apple Silicon this week and this morning I booted it up for the last time. Off to a competitive product now that I hope is as good and well supported.
May your future be bright old friend, for I think we shall never meet again.
So long and thanks for all the fish
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Thanks for the kind words.
But: Never say never again.
But: Never say never again.
Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Oh no..! Is that a tease of some sort?!?
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
IMO it's a statement of fact. Nobody knows the future of M1 Macs. Apple has always tried to buck the market when it comes to processor choice (MOS instead of Zilog, Motorola instead of Intel, PowerPC instead of Intel), always ending in failure. I'm not sure that the market forces that led to the decision to switch to Intel have really changed much. True the market for handheld devices is owned by ARM, but the business market for laptops and PCs is very different from the one for phones and iPads.
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Well, the M1 Macs works seamless with x86/x64 applications and works very fast, with long battery life and the Mac not getting hot. Also, most relevant software is ported to the Mac today anyway. This was not the case back in PPC times.
Therefore the change most probably will be permanent. I even more expect the x86/x64 architecture will more and more disappear, most devices already use other processors, of course in PC market, it is still the most used technology.
The only thing that does NOT work is to run Windows x86/x64 (and Linux, but in that, you can compile for other processors by default) on it itselves, neither as Bootcamp, nor as emulation. And that is the only problem.
On the MAC, the only commercial interesting virtualisation was to use x86 Software (mainly Windows) on the Mac. That does not change for the future I guess.
I would never have migrated to Mac, if I wasnt able to use Windows on it (use also special programs that are only available for it, have expensive licences...)
Also, the PC world evolves to other processors, many vendors will deliver PC compatible devices in the future, e.G. from Google (Chromebook).
Therefore an Emulator for the PC does make sense and has a future market.
Related to speed: Rosetta works well and fast for the intel based applications. Also there are emulators for other processors that work perfect, e.g. the Amiga emulator UAE uses a "Just In Time" compilation. The code is transfered to x64 code almost in realtime and runs extremely fast then. UAE emulator (cannot post a link here)
Its not a question of "can it be done", it is a question of using the right ressources or expecting to get a return of investment.
If you look at the M1 thread here in the forum (currently 243000 visits, 2nd most of all), there is a demand. And I'm convinced there will be a x86/x64 emulator, because people will workk on it, at least in the Open source scene.
Therefore the change most probably will be permanent. I even more expect the x86/x64 architecture will more and more disappear, most devices already use other processors, of course in PC market, it is still the most used technology.
The only thing that does NOT work is to run Windows x86/x64 (and Linux, but in that, you can compile for other processors by default) on it itselves, neither as Bootcamp, nor as emulation. And that is the only problem.
On the MAC, the only commercial interesting virtualisation was to use x86 Software (mainly Windows) on the Mac. That does not change for the future I guess.
I would never have migrated to Mac, if I wasnt able to use Windows on it (use also special programs that are only available for it, have expensive licences...)
Also, the PC world evolves to other processors, many vendors will deliver PC compatible devices in the future, e.G. from Google (Chromebook).
Therefore an Emulator for the PC does make sense and has a future market.
Related to speed: Rosetta works well and fast for the intel based applications. Also there are emulators for other processors that work perfect, e.g. the Amiga emulator UAE uses a "Just In Time" compilation. The code is transfered to x64 code almost in realtime and runs extremely fast then. UAE emulator (cannot post a link here)
Its not a question of "can it be done", it is a question of using the right ressources or expecting to get a return of investment.
If you look at the M1 thread here in the forum (currently 243000 visits, 2nd most of all), there is a demand. And I'm convinced there will be a x86/x64 emulator, because people will workk on it, at least in the Open source scene.
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Right here, Chis, is probably where the situation stands with Virtualbox. It all comes down to who's got the ready.Chis Ideas wrote:expecting to get a return of investment.
Oracle now owns Virtualbox and decides where the devs are steered. So it's really Oracle that has to be convinced to add emulator code to Virtualbox (which Virtualbox does not have now). And Oracle reps rarely read this forum: we are all users of free Virtualbox here. So you're actually talking to the wrong people.
Now if folks bought Oracle's pay-for hypervisor based on Virtualbox, then thy might be able to convince them to support M1-based Macs. But free Virtualbox users probably won't be able to sway the outcome more than the weight of their monetary investment in Virtualbox.
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Yes.. the question is, how can users reach them?
By the way, there is a x64 emulator for ARM, to emulate Raspberry Pi. It is of course limited in its ability related to hardware, but it can be installed in Linux ARM for example:
https://github.com/slimsam4u/Exagear-De ... llation.md
By the way, there is a x64 emulator for ARM, to emulate Raspberry Pi. It is of course limited in its ability related to hardware, but it can be installed in Linux ARM for example:
https://github.com/slimsam4u/Exagear-De ... llation.md
Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Chris, If you want to check out a project that is used allot more than the one you linked then have a look at Mame as it has a heck of allot of simulated CPU's and devices or QEMU as it does emulation as well.
I am with Scott in that posts on the forum and free users will not get any traction for Oracle to do anything IMHO. There are 1 or 2 Oracle devs that do lurk in the forum occasionally (one every 3 to 5 months I see a post if I am lucky), but they look at very very specific issues that can or are affecting the paid customers or will affect the paid customers in the future as the free edition users sometimes use the bleeding edge OS's which businesses do not use (This occurred to one of my posts about 5 months ago, but so far I have not seen the fix in the free version and am hoping it will make it in before the end of the year if I am lucky).
I am with Scott in that posts on the forum and free users will not get any traction for Oracle to do anything IMHO. There are 1 or 2 Oracle devs that do lurk in the forum occasionally (one every 3 to 5 months I see a post if I am lucky), but they look at very very specific issues that can or are affecting the paid customers or will affect the paid customers in the future as the free edition users sometimes use the bleeding edge OS's which businesses do not use (This occurred to one of my posts about 5 months ago, but so far I have not seen the fix in the free version and am hoping it will make it in before the end of the year if I am lucky).
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
I think your best chance is on Internet Relay Chat (IRC).Chis Ideas wrote:the question is, how can users reach them?
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Re: So long and thanks for all the fish
Unless you come bearing loads of cash, your impertinence will only annoy them. In truth the entire MacOS business market is too small to care about, never mind that teeny subset that went for M1.Chis Ideas wrote:Yes.. the question is, how can users reach them?
Even with loads of cash, if it was me I'd conclude that the proposition is nonsense and turn you down anyway. There is no ARM based PC ecosystem to simulate, and simulation of Intel will produce terrible performance.
I'm going to lock this topic since I see it's going the same way as the earlier sticky topic: pointless around and around with blind wishful thinking helping nobody.