How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Discussions related to using VirtualBox on Windows hosts.

How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby Dead Cell » 5. Feb 2010, 07:22

Hello to you all.

First of all I'm new here and have never used VirtualBox before or any other virtual software programs.

I currently have a decently specd gaming PC running Windows 7. This is now alos used by the kids for browsing and homework etc.

From time to time the kids download a lot of games of their own from sites and unfortunately these games also come with a lot of addware/spyware.

I need to be able to use this PC for safe surfing such as banking, shopping and emails etc but in its current state I wouldn't enter any personal info in to this machine for reasons mentioned above.


Is there anyway I can use virtualbox to install another version of windows such as XP, and run this OS safely and securely within Windows 7 without any of those nasty addwares and spywares seeing or getting the info I enter in to the virtual OS?

Would it be very secure and safe to do?

Also would I be able to install Kaspersky IS on to XP which I will be running on virtualbox?

I use to do all my safe surfing on my laptop but had to get rid of it and now I'm kinda stuck.

I clean my PC as much as possible but the kids always manage to screw up something and I can never be 100% certain that its safe.

If this is not possible or there's an easier way for me to bank and shop from Windows 7 then I would really love to hear from you guys.

I know some say that running Linux is very safe but I have never used it so I wouldn't feel very comfortable with it.

If someone can help me out or point me in the right direction I'd be ever so grateful.

Thank you and kind regards.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 5. Feb 2010, 08:53

Dead Cell wrote:Is there anyway I can use virtualbox to install another version of windows such as XP, and run this OS safely and securely within Windows 7 without any of those nasty addwares and spywares seeing or getting the info I enter in to the virtual OS?

Generally speaking yes, but most probably it could be some kind of problem. You know this kind of architecture where host could be compromised is the same as having physical computers on compromised network. I would still not feel OK.

Dead Cell wrote:Would it be very secure and safe to do?

It would be more secure than running application on compromised host, but not "very" secure.

Dead Cell wrote:Also would I be able to install Kaspersky IS on to XP which I will be running on virtualbox?

There was some problem while ago using Kasperski inside VirtualBox, but I am quite sure that this issue was fixed. Generally speaking any modern program that runs on Windows should run inside virtualization software.

Dead Cell wrote:If this is not possible or there's an easier way for me to bank and shop from Windows 7 then I would really love to hear from you guys.

There is not the biggest problem on Windows, but on how it is handled by user. If you are sure you can have plenty of non-secure software installed, I would not use it for banking at all.

Dead Cell wrote:I know some say that running Linux is very safe but I have never used it so I wouldn't feel very comfortable with it.

I also think Linux is very good option. But you know what is the biggest problem of Linux, it was made for geeks and so got bad reputation that it is hard to learn. But modern Linux distributions, like Ubuntu, are very easy to learn. I made an experiment with multiple users. There were used to Windows XP and I made them use Ubuntu and told them this is new version of Windows (it was not it was Ubuntu), then got it working very easily without any big problem. There just ask me some basic questions where is "Start" menu, I sad there is Application menu instead etc, but no real problem at all. But then I have gave them Windows 7 and told them this is another version of Windows if they would like to use this one and that was big disaster. "What? Why did you change everything give me back my previous 'Windows' " - actually it was Ubuntu. I think there is much much much less burden of learning Ubuntu then Windows 7 for Windows XP users. But like you said you would like to use banking, right? So Ubuntu has Firefox browser which is the same browser like on Windows. What are you afraid of? Using the same software on different operating system. I don't think you will be needing to dig into operating system at all. This is modern Linux distribution that is very advanced and does not require you to be a computer geek. I use Windows for games (children) and I use Ubuntu for backing. I have installed the same configuration on my father & mother computer and they are well over 60 and they use Ubuntu just like they used Windows XP. They are way away from geeks. I just told them that Ubuntu is 'Windows' for baking and they like it. They are using browser! That is Firefox, using banking, Google to search pages, Gmail to use mail. So browser is there only need, and I think that is your primary focus. I suggest to download Ubuntu and try it out. I guarantee you, you will be surprised how easy it is, and don't forget it is all free of charge. Just download Ubuntu, burn an ISO image and then start Windows, insert Ubuntu CD and install it just like any other Windows program. Install program will start-up you can let all default setting in only one install window and click Install button - only one simple step is required, and you said you are afraid of being too hard to learn. This kind of installation will add a boot menu at start up and you will select Windows or Ubuntu to boot into. Children will select Windows and you will select Ubuntu. Then log in into Ubuntu with username and password and you know what single click to start Firefox. Is this hard? It can't be more simple. You will have a beautiful feeling you can safe banking. Need more info. Just ask. There is also Ubuntu forum also for beginner, there are about 10.000 users on-line asking and answering questions. Yes that big Ubuntu community is. Can you imagine? But for using Firefox you will probably not need any help, will you? Do you need help for Firefox on Windows, no... it's the same browser.

Dead Cell wrote:If someone can help me out or point me in the right direction I'd be ever so grateful.

I will not be save using Windows full of spyware/addware installed by your kids and running banking.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby tb2571989 » 5. Feb 2010, 10:10

Thats quite a post...

generall, as long as you had some antivirus/firewall installed in the guest then that would be fine. One option though is to set up a virtual machines for your kids and take a copy of the virtual hard disk, so when it does screw up casue of spyware/adware/viruses etc then all you have to do is replace the virtual hard disk.

Good idea, though.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 5. Feb 2010, 14:28

tb2571989 wrote:generall, as long as you had some antivirus/firewall installed in the guest then that would be fine.

If there is spyware installed on host, you can't be sure that antivirus/firewall installed in guest is the best protection. In this case guest is save, but host is not, when info leaves guest it can get intercepted by spywared-host. I would not do banking in such a case.

tb2571989 wrote:One option though is to set up a virtual machines for your kids and take a copy of the virtual hard disk, so when it does screw up casue of spyware/adware/viruses etc then all you have to do is replace the virtual hard disk.

This could be one option. So host is save and you only used it for banking. In guest you run games. But in this case you have to know that performance will drop and that not all games are supported to run in VirtualBox. In this case I think you will have problems playing games and so risk that children will just install games on host Windows to get over this problem.

I still think that the best option is Ubuntu (or any other distro, but if you are beginner I suggest you use Ubuntu). In this case you are absolutely sure that spyware is not running at the same time that your baking applications run in browser.

I also thought if installing another Windows beside this, but in this case is also not save, because spyware can read Windows partition that is not started (so from other Windows install) and so this is also not secure.

One other option should be to buy another hard disk install Windows on it and so when you are banking plug in your hard disk. When children are playing then they should have there own disk. But I would not recommend to have both disk installed on the same time. Maybe the best option in this case is to have USB disk and boot it from it. But any kind of two-disk options means spend more money.

I still think Linux distribution like Ubuntu is the safest and cheapest way.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby Dead Cell » 5. Feb 2010, 20:46

abcuser and tb2571989

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post, I'm very grateful. :D

abcuser, a very interesting read I must say and I think I now have a rough idea which path to take. But I have a few more questions and options which I would like to throw your way since you seem very knowledgeable on this topic.

As I have a few Hard Disk drives to spare, I can easily install another one and maybe install another OS such as Ubuntu on it. So I will have two HDDs one with Windows 7, and the other one with Ubuntu. I have checked out Ubuntu on youtube and damn it looks really good. I've heard of it before but never really had the need for a Linux OS as Windows served all my needs. But I have always heard that Linux is supposed to be much safer and another plus is that its free. :oops: I think its time I got in to the Linux game.

Ok so now the question is, is it safe to have two HDDs with both Windows 7 and Ubuntu at the same time? If I turn on the PC and boot into Windows 7, can viruses and other nasties infect the Ubuntu HDD?

Or would you recommend that I only have one HDD plugged in at a time? I don't mind this as I only need to safe surf once or twice a week for banking etc, so switching HDDs is not a big deal. If I have to go through this route then maybe it would be better to install Ubuntu on a USB Flash Drive? Is this possible? If so then it would make it a little easier as I just pull the plug on the WIndows 7 HDD, and insert the Ubuntu Flash Drive and away I go.

The other question is, how safe is Ubuntu out of the box? Will I need to install some sort of Internet Security software on it? Or is this unnecessary?

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a really paranoid freak of some sort but I'm very very cautious about entering my personal details into any PC. I had a laptop which had Windows Vista Business and this was only used for banking, shopping, paypal etc and nothing else. I had Kaspersky installed on it with the settings tweaked to extreme!

But I was only using this once or twice a week for an hour or so and it seemed like a waste, I've given it to my brother for his uni work and I wanted to see if there was a safe way in which I can use my current PC instead.

Once again, thank you very much for helping me out and I look forward to hearing more from you guys.

I'm going to download a Ubuntu ISO tonight when I get home and will be doing more research on it to learn a bit more to get me started. I'm really looking forward to it. :wink:
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby MarkCranness » 6. Feb 2010, 00:07

What abcuser says is very right.

Other options might be:
- Boot Linux not from a HDD, but from a Ubuntu Live CD (Ubuntu booted from a DVD you create).
- Use Windows Steady State to attempt to lock down and control the kids use of the PC.

Ubuntu is extremely safe out of the box.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby Dead Cell » 6. Feb 2010, 00:59

MarkCranness wrote:What abcuser says is very right.

Other options might be:
- Boot Linux not from a HDD, but from a Ubuntu Live CD (Ubuntu booted from a DVD you create).
- Use Windows Steady State to attempt to lock down and control the kids use of the PC.

Ubuntu is extremely safe out of the box.



MarkCranness, thank you also for your input and for providing the the very useful links.

WindowsSteadyState is something I had actually considered before but it limits the kids a little. I have installed K9 Parental Control with very strict settings and allowed a few sites such as flash based games sites amongst others, so that they can use those sites.

I really like the sound of the LiveCDPersistence which allows Ubuntu to be run from a USB Flash Drive. I guess one of the key benefits over running the CD based Ubuntu is that you can save your settings etc on the USB Flash Drive.

I understand from reading info from that link you provided that the performance of Ubuntu, used through this method won't be very fast but then again, performance isnt something that I'm after as its just for browsing a few sites, making a few transactions and then out comes the USB Drive! I'll even wait for the motherloving thing to load as long as it takes lol.

I'm wondering though, would I still have to pull out the Windows 7 HDD before I connect the USB Drive and run Ubuntu or would this be meaningless?

I mean, if I'm not booting into Windows 7, and instead booting into Ubuntu on a USB Drive, then surely no virus or other nasties that are present on Windows 7 HDD, will be able to run or infect the Ubuntu USB Drive right?

Or would you still recommend pulling out the WIndows 7 HDD to be on the safe side?

Thanks to you brilliant folks I now have a good direction to follow and I'm nearly there.

Oh yeh, where is the best and safest place to download a Ubuntu ISO Image which is also the latest version? :oops: I've found loads on a site that I frequently visit but there are so many and I can't be sure if they have been tampered with in some way or another!

I can't wait to take out Ubuntu for a spin, the things I've seen on youtube look damn awesome but I'm a little confused with all the different versions out there. Lots of playing and research ahead.

Cheers guys, wish you all a good weekend.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 6. Feb 2010, 09:33

Dead Cell wrote:Ok so now the question is, is it safe to have two HDDs with both Windows 7 and Ubuntu at the same time? If I turn on the PC and boot into Windows 7, can viruses and other nasties infect the Ubuntu HDD?

It is not very likely but it can. This kind of virus should be advance one beside working fine in Windows it should be capable of reading ext4 disk partitions (Ubuntu use ext4 file system, Windows uses NTFS). It is possible not very likely but if you would like to be extra careful I would recommend USB Drive.

Dead Cell wrote:If I have to go through this route then maybe it would be better to install Ubuntu on a USB Flash Drive
I know it is possible to install on USB Flash Drive, but I haven't done it - never really needed this option. I suggest to login into Ubuntu forums (this forum is VirtualBox it is for virtualization, many people here have a lot of knowledge on this forum, but they are interested into virtualization, so they just don't answer questions about other topics). There is perfect place to start it is called Ubuntu Absolute Beginner Talk Forum and there are some very nice people there. They will always help you out. On this forum they know you are beginner and so they will be glad to help you out - that is beginner forum all about. And most probably you will get at least three answers in 15 minutes.

But back to the question. I would not use USB Flash Drive, because you would probably need to start Windows before starting Ubuntu, so if you avoided to have two disks or having install two operating systems on one disk, then this also should be avoided.

I suggest to have USB Disk Drive and plug USB cable into USB port and boot computer from it. Maybe even you can boot from USB Flash Drive, I haven't done this, so sorry I can't advice on this case.

Dead Cell wrote:The other question is, how safe is Ubuntu out of the box? Will I need to install some sort of Internet Security software on it? Or is this unnecessary?

You don't need any security software. This is the biggest difference between using Windows and Ubuntu. Windows was designed 3 decades ago to be one user on single PC (there was no internet at that time). So when internet appeared Windows was not ready for it, but so many users used Windows they were not want to break backward compatibility. All you need to have is just running programs and running it well, without burden to people. So one user on one PC it is assumed to have administrator rights - why shouldn't he/she have it he/she is just one person one one PC. Yes sure there is possible to create non-administrative user on Windows, but most of the program needing any kind of system info will fail or will just crash or even worst 'give' you some kind of program's file corruption. So this Windows design requires multiple security software to be installed on computer like anti-virus tools, anti-spyware, anti-anything-you-can-think-of etc.

On the other hand Linux systems are siblings from Unix design. Unix has always been (for forth decades) a system that was designed to be running in network system like banks, university etc. So security model is completely different. Ones I have met IBMer running Unix systems for several years and also running Windows, he stated very interesting point out about security: "Windows security philosophy: you are granted to do everything, if you would like to restrict some options then you restrict it. Unix security philosophy: you are granted to do nothing, if you would like to have some access you have to grant it." But Ubuntu is designed to be Linux for non-geek average person user, so you are granted to have access to day to day activities, but if you would like to have access to system files, you need to enter password, so no applications from internet can be installed without entering administrative password.

Dead Cell wrote:I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a really paranoid freak of some sort but I'm very very cautious about entering my personal details into any PC. I had a laptop which had Windows Vista Business and this was only used for banking, shopping, paypal etc and nothing else. I had Kaspersky installed on it with the settings tweaked to extreme!

I like "paranoid" people about security, because internet is jungle and you should be careful about entering information associated with money.

I thing there is no need to install anti-virus on Ubuntu. The only recommendation is to install anti-virus on Ubuntu if you would like to scan Windows computers (like your children's) and so stop viruses to spread to any other computer on local network. But from security perspective I always install firewall - I install Gufw where only one check box need to be checked after installation to enable firewall and then default settings are good. Installing firewall blocks all internet access to your computer, so if there is some kind of vulnerability in system you most probably not be affected, because you don't allow internet access to your computer.
Last edited by abcuser on 6. Feb 2010, 10:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 6. Feb 2010, 10:00

Dead Cell wrote:I really like the sound of the LiveCDPersistence which allows Ubuntu to be run from a USB Flash Drive. I guess one of the key benefits over running the CD based Ubuntu is that you can save your settings etc on the USB Flash Drive.
This can be nice option, but it will run much slowly. The other problem is Ubuntu CD is static point of software that was released some moths ago (Ubuntu releases every 6 months - no revolution needed like on Windows XP --> Windows Vista, just minor updates). Ubuntu is designed to update itself and whole software installed on the system only by using one click! Because today modern software is made of billions of programming code it is impossible to be 100% free of security bugs. So it gets updates and you should install updates - it is easy to do this, because window pops-up and ask if you would like to install updates. So updating the system is what makes you secure. Live CD was secure when it was released, but new security problems could be known and already fixed.

One more difference between Windows and Ubuntu. On Windows you download some exe file from internet and install the program, you get wizard and you install it. Then you have lets say at least 50 small programs on computer like office suite, cd burning tool, music player etc but do you update this programs every day, because they can have some security problems in it and fix is already released but you haven't installed it, so you are at risk. On Ubuntu there is centralized software repository. What ever you install (just using one click, no wizards at all) from repository Ubuntu knows it and checks daily if there is some update available and if it is it installs it. So what makes Ubuntu vs. Windows security is regular updates. You know on Windows you can have some fix available for months or years, but if you didn't install the fix you can get security problems. How does security attacks works: Microsoft and other companies publish on there web sites that there is security vulnerability and fix is available to install. But hackers read this instructions and makes programs to exploit it. The real problem is that users don't install fixes. On Ubuntu all software is updated from central repository, so you can't miss some security update.

Dead Cell wrote:I'm wondering though, would I still have to pull out the Windows 7 HDD before I connect the USB Drive and run Ubuntu or would this be meaningless?
No, Windows programs (and Windows viruses) can't be run if Ubuntu is turned on. But unplug Ubuntu USB Drive when you are finished.

Dead Cell wrote:I mean, if I'm not booting into Windows 7, and instead booting into Ubuntu on a USB Drive, then surely no virus or other nasties that are present on Windows 7 HDD, will be able to run or infect the Ubuntu USB Drive right?
Exactly!

Dead Cell wrote:Oh yeh, where is the best and safest place to download a Ubuntu ISO Image which is also the latest version?
Download it from official site!

Dead Cell wrote:I can't wait to take out Ubuntu for a spin, the things I've seen on youtube look damn awesome but I'm a little confused with all the different versions out there. Lots of playing and research ahead.

This is one of the biggest difference on Linux environment that you will not see on Windows. Every "dam" think you can imagine you have 100 options to choose from. You have Ubuntu (GNOME environment - very simple to use), Kubuntu (KDE environment - more advance desktop environment for users that want to set 100 and 100 settings), Edubuntu (for schools, education), Mythbuntu (specialized for music & video etc), Xubuntu (for older PCs) etc etc etc. This all of the options goes on with all software you can imagine like text editor: gedit, kate, vim, etc etc etc. There are tons of other Linux distributions like Fedora (new software as possible), OpenSuse, ArchLinux (for computer geeks), Gentoo (for extra computer geeks), etc etc etc. There is no "single" solution on Linux and that is great, but also "big" trouble for beginner. But you know to solve this problem there was Ubuntu, which was designed for average user who doesn't like to decide between 100 programs and 100 settings and 100 other stuff, but instead all of the software that is needed for average user is installed, configured and ready for use out of the box. You will get one program for each purpose: Firefox browser, Gedit text editor, Emphaty chat program (supports MSN chat, Google chat, any chat you imagine), Nautilus file manager (very very similar to Windows Explorer), Totem Movie Player (one click music player) etc. All packed for one purpose: just start using it. Don't bother with install, configure etc. just use it.

What I suggest you is don't be confused by all of this tons of options you can have. It is just like you were in supermarket tons of products to choose from, but you have your favorite chocolate and this favorite chocolate is called Ubuntu. Download it, install it, love it. All other tons of millions of options you can have later if you would like to have them or have a need for having them, both of which I sincerity doubt, because Ubuntu is what average user will ever need.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby Dead Cell » 6. Feb 2010, 22:28

Abcuser, once again man thank you very much for the very thorough explanation and answers to my questions. You explain things in such a way that I can understand without getting more confused.

I know you have given me much of your time to do this and I want you to know that I'm extremely grateful and very much appreciate it.

I have wiped my Windows 7 HDD and reinstalled a clean version of Windows 7, Kaspersky set up, and I've also managed to download Ubuntu. So for the time being no viruses or other horrible softwares on this HDD.

Just need to get home again and find out how to go about installing and running from a USB drive. I have a Seagate GO portable drive 360GB and this will be a lot faster than using a small USB Flash Stick. I will do all this tonight before the kids get their dirty hands on the PC. Windows Steady State might also be good once its supported on Windows 7.

Like you have recommended abcuser, I plan to stick the portable USB HDD into the PC and boot into Ubuntu, do all my stuff and then shut off and pull out the USB HDD for safe keeping. Then the kids or me can turn on the PC and just let Windows 7 start up. Very nice and simple :)


I'm going to look through that beginners Ubuntu site you were kind enough to link me to and will seek all the help I need. They have a complete walkthrough for beginners so that should do me just fine.

I know this is all off topic as this now has nothing to do with VirtualBox but thanks to this site and of course to you abcuser and all the other kind people here, I discovered Ubuntu and how useful it can be for people like me.

And on top of all the security it provides, its also free! I would've had to at least purchase a version of Windows XP which would've cost around £50. But I thought that's cheaper than buying a small low powered laptop which could've cost at least £200. A laptop which I would've only used once or twice a week.

I do hope this thread will also benefit other people who are in the same situation as me.

I will give an update here just to let you know how I got on.

Please accept my sincerest gratitude abcuser. Thank you.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby ffoulks » 8. Feb 2010, 03:34

I created a guest specifically for the purpose of isolating my financial transactions. The host is Windows 7 64 bit, and so is the guest. When I go to my bank's https site, the box locks up - not usually immediately, but sooner rather than later. Two questions: (1) What about the lockups? Anything I can do about this problem? (2) Does it buy me any security advantage at all to isolate my sensitive stuff in a guest?

My plan has been to create a "Media" guest for my web cruising. Again, is there any security advantage?
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 9. Feb 2010, 19:05

Dead Cell wrote:Just need to get home again and find out how to go about installing and running from a USB drive

You have to check BIOS settings and set boot order in such a way that USB drive will be checked first and then hard disk.

Dead Cell wrote:Like you have recommended abcuser, I plan to stick the portable USB HDD into the PC and boot into Ubuntu, do all my stuff and then shut off and pull out the USB HDD for safe keeping. Then the kids or me can turn on the PC and just let Windows 7 start up. Very nice and simple
I like this idea, because you can be sure that kinds will not get some infection to your system.

Dead Cell wrote:I will give an update here just to let you know how I got on.
Yes, please add update. You can also send me forum's personal message or as I suggested ask questions directly on Ubuntu Beginner forum and you will get tons of answers instantly.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 9. Feb 2010, 19:11

ffoulks wrote:When I go to my bank's https site, the box locks up - not usually immediately, but sooner rather than later. Two questions: (1) What about the lockups? Anything I can do about this problem?
Sorry I don't understand what do you mean by "lockups", can you please describe more in detail?

ffoulks wrote:(2) Does it buy me any security advantage at all to isolate my sensitive stuff in a guest?

You have to think about security like on the weakest part of the chain. You have to have both host and guest secured correctly and without spyware and adware and other ???ware.

I advised user "Dead Cell" to have separate USB disk, because he is having insecure way of using Windows on host - that is installing all sort of games that have bunch of spyware etc by his kids. On such a system I would never use banking.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby ffoulks » 9. Feb 2010, 22:02

Thank you all for your responses.

What I mean by "lockup" is that within the virtual box, clicking on the mouse, or using any other input medium, does nothing. In order to close the box, I must click the 'x' on the title bar of the application window of the host, and select "Power off the machine". When I restart the box, the Windows Error Recovery window appears. Does anyone have a handle on my inability to use my bank's secure site?

My host and guest are clean both clean installations of Windows 7 Professional N, 64 bit, with automatic updates. Both have up-to-date Windows Defender and Symantec Endpoint Protection with both Antivirus and Antispyware Protection and Proactive Threat Protection on.
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Re: How secure is VirtualBox for safe surfing?

Postby abcuser » 10. Feb 2010, 11:16

ffoulks wrote:What I mean by "lockup" is that within the virtual box, clicking on the mouse, or using any other input medium, does nothing. In order to close the box, I must click the 'x' on the title bar of the application window of the host, and select "Power off the machine". When I restart the box, the Windows Error Recovery window appears. Does anyone have a handle on my inability to use my bank's secure site?
Power down is not some normal operation. This option is the same as on physical computer to unplug power. File system can get corrupted or some files maybe not be written correctly, because power got off in the middle of writing. Use normal Windows shut-down operation from Start menu or select "Send the shutdown signal" if you close with click on "x" on VirtualBox.

ffoulks wrote:My host and guest are clean both clean installations of Windows 7 Professional N, 64 bit, with automatic updates. Both have up-to-date Windows Defender and Symantec Endpoint Protection with both Antivirus and Antispyware Protection and Proactive Threat Protection on.

The biggest security enemy is user itself. If users like Dead Cell's kids are installing all sort of software coupled with spyware etc I would declare that kind of system insecure. But in your case it looks secure to me. Just don't install any unknown/insecure software from internet both on host and on guest.
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