My Audio is choppy and everything I tried from this forums has not been able to fix it.

[Nonlin]

Dear Friends, colleges, internet friends, please lend me your insight.

I am setting a up a music system as a client in a oracle virtualbox running windows 10(64) on a Lenovo Legion 5 15 AMD Ryzen 7 4800H as the host running the same OS. Since I will be composing music, doing sound design and mastering, audio is rather critical. But for some reason I getting choppy and crackling audio from the client though the host. I decided to try to see if the client by it self was at fault so I borrowed a Propellerhead Balance (a audio interface) from another system and the audio running from the client though the USB directly to Balance was perfect (details on how to use a usb2 only device on this kind of system, fashioned on request). So at least that's ok. But if I run the audio out the client to the host and use the Balance as the host's audio output I have the same choppy problem as I had with using the hosts own hardware. Even if the Host is using a blue tooth speaker, the audio from the client to the host is still choppy. Now I know from experience that even if I were to rely on a 3rd party interface for my audio, that there will come a day when I have no choice but to need to run the audio on the local hosts sound hard ware, so I better get that working properly.

Now I am the kind of person who tries there best to do there home work first before I come crying for help. Well guess what, I am at the point of crying for help. So here is list of things and resources I used to try to get it working. If anyone give me an idea of something I hadn't tried, will that would be appreciated.


I started by trying to match the sample rates and bit depths of the 2 machines (host & client) and I had to downgrade the Host's driver to be able to change that rate.

I had also disabled effects on both machines.



I was going to try the recommendation from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/606 ... uest-win10. So I tried to download the AC'97 Audio Codecs from Realtek to be installed in the Client but so called "Vista/Vin7 (32/64 bits) Driver only" from: https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zo ... s-software But don't seem to be downloadable anymore, I mean I get to agree to the download, but the site dose not deliver. So I wasn't able to even able to attempt it.




Installed the latest drivers on the HOST from: https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zo ... s-software
I gave me full control over the sample rates and bit depths, but didn't fix the problem.


So I got the idea that maybe it was the use of the ACPI, I got that idea from: viewtopic.php?t=43641
And got the rest of the details to do it from this post: viewtopic.php?t=21480

In the window find and click on "Advanced Power and Configuration Interface (ACPI) PC" then click next ~>
But the driver that was already installed was the only one available to select and it was not called "Advanced Power and Configuration Interface (ACPI) PC", it had an abbreviated name, Regardless it's Version 10.0.19041.1 Dated: 6/21/2006

Tried to get the ACPI drivers from hear:
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/downloads/ds105474
But they didn't seem to take the version is still 10.0.19041.1

Also I could not Lock the IOAPIC as false down, Vbox seems to rename the .vbox file and then save a new one, so the set it read (or even trying to take the permissions away from it) don't work, Vbox keep switching it back on. But I believe that I have been able to run it with the IO APIC disabled by editing the file and then running the machine right away.

So I have tried everything I have been able to find. So I am putting my log up in the hope that one of you might have a better idea to how to make this work.





That was a mouth full and I am sorry about that, but I though that laying it all out for you guy would help to not waist your time.

So any help would be appreciated, and thank you.

[mpack]

Please put "IO-APIC" back where it is supposed to be, and then reduce the number of VM CPUs to 2. Reduce VM RAM to 25GB or less. Enable 3D graphics acceleration.

[Nonlin]

Thanks for Replaying so fast.

set up like you said, and it still had the problem (though maybe not quite as bad, but bad enough stil). I then cut the memory to 12GB and nothing changed.

I included the log form y 12GB test

[mpack]

Choppy audio is always caused by stressing the CPU (e.g. by starving the host of CPU cores) or by stressing the VM. If the above made no difference then look at the guest task list and see where the CPU or network hogs are.

I'm assuming btw that there is nothing unusual about the audio, e.g. you would have mentioned if it involved USB.

[Nonlin]

Hi mpack,

I am not quite sure what the or where to find the "Guest task list" is? But I ran the guest and screen caped the Task Manager, hopefully that is close to what you asking for.







OR if you can the images above then please use the fallowing links
Task_Manager.PNG
Task_Manager_p2.PNG
Task_Manager_p3.PNG
Task_Manager_p4.PNG
Task_Manager_p5.PNG

As you can see, Virtually nothing is happening (excuse the vbox joke). The OS is a fairly new install and I haven't installed any of my music software yet, No DAWs, no midi drivers, no VSTs nothing. I just thought is be a good idea fix all the OS, anti-virus, and vbox issues first before I install the Big Guns.

If this is not what you meant by the "Guest task list", then give the instruction to find it, and I will be happy to provide it.

--
To answer your other question. Yes that is right, the Balance audio interface being connected directly to the Guest's USB had absolutely no clicking or choppiness. it was perfect. So there is hope.

--

A though on the shared CPU core issue you brought up. I got this machine with tuns of cores. 8 cores that give me 16 threads. Even though I need to give most of them to the music software that will be running in the guest (and a much of the memory that I can). I can spare one or two exclusively for the Host. So if this problem has something to do with the guest and host sharing a core and there is way to give them each there own. I would be very happy with that solution, if of course that was the cause.

--

As to solutions, I am hopping that I will not have to leave 3D graphics acceleration Enabled. Look at the mess it's making of guest's my screen:
OR 3D_on2.png
That happen when I try to access the audio controls on the guest.

And look at this, the background for the menus are transparent.
OR 3D_on3.png

I don't have any problems when the 3D graphics acceleration is off. But this is not the main issue at the moment. Let me get the sound fixed first and then see if this still needs to be addressed.

And thank you for all your help so far.

Sincerely,

Stefan

[scottgus1]

Look at the mess it's making of guest's my screen:

You're using 6.1.34, so you're not facing 7.0's ongoing graphics development. The transparency issues in a 10 VM with 6.1's 3D acceleration enabled is solved by disabling transparency effects in the VM's 10 OS:

Settings > Personalization > Colors > Transparency Effects

or

Ease of Access > Display > Simplify and personalize Windows > Show transparency in Windows

the Balance audio interface being connected directly to the Guest's USB had absolutely no clicking or choppiness. it was perfect. So there is hope.

The hope is fulfilled because the OS in the VM has direct interface to the audio equipment through a Virtualbox USB filter. USB cannot be shared between multiple PCs. So the host is not controlling the USB interface, the VM OS is, and audio works.

Somewhere, putting audio into the host OS through Virtualbox audio either to the motherboard sound system or to the USB device not filtered by Virtualbox but controlled by the host OS has some form of latency problem.

You may have to consider that audio in the VM will require a Virtualbox USB filter and a filtered USB audio device. Or do your audio on the physical PC, not a VM.

[jorgensen]

I have experienced more or less copping sound from different guest and Virtualbox versions.
My solution has been an external USB DAC which is switched in for guests, where sound quality is important - no host sound then!
For other guests I live with the sometime chopping sound.

[Nonlin]

Thanks scottgus1, Turning of the transparency cleaned that up quite nicely.

Thou I was not so sure if your reference to version 7 was a positive or negative review on there latter version of vbox? Would upgrading to 7 been another way to have dealt with this problem or would I have inherited even more graphic problem? Just curious.

In answer both your and Jorgensen comment. The Balance is a external USB DAC. Hear a link if your curious https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/pr ... ad-balance. And since my main DAW is going to be Reason, The Balance was made to work with it and it has added feature like Clip safe and that ability to call up the tuner on the DAW so you can tune your Guitar. It would be the idea to keep it on the system. But it has been my experience that you can't have idea all the time. You don't know how many times I have to got back to the main computers DAC to get though a project for some reason or another. The way I am putting all the extra effort to try to get this to work. I most likely going to need it in the end


One though that you guys brought up is that the reason the Balance works so well is because the host give up the interface to the guest. The same happens for USB hard drives, you can do that with even with your internal hard drive that are non USB with the VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk comand. And in a way that is sort of better. So if there was a way to have the Guest take over the Hosts audio hardware (possibly even the audio Blue tooth hardware), so the host can't use them any longer (for the time the guest is running) I would be happy with that. I might a little Inconvenient. But I could live. So does any one know if something like that is possible.

I look forward to any ideas on this matter. And thank you all.

Stefan

[scottgus1]

I was not so sure if your reference to version 7 was a positive or negative review

7.0 is new and has graphics changes, which still have bugs because of its newness. Eventually the bugs will get caught, just like other new features. Folks who need a VM to be working may want to stay on non-new versions.

f there was a way to have the Guest take over the Hosts audio hardware

Only if the host's audio is USB-based. Raw Disk Access is a different system specially designed for physical disk drives not attached via USB. But Raw Disk and USB are the only systems available to get the VM to control physical hardware.

A friendly frame challenge: Why do you need to run DAW software inside a VM? Since:

how many times I have to got back to the main computers DAC to get though a project for some reason or another.

[Nonlin]

What you stated about the ver 7 is what I have been saying for years. If it ant broken. Don't fix it! I had so many cases between me, my friends and my clients loosing some thing critical with an upgrade or updates (a lot of them from windows updates). So I finally learned that lesson. And since most of my machines are not allowed on the internet anyway, I usually disable updates on an OS just after installing it, at least I know that the environment will stay as stable as it is. In my book, you should only update, when you have the need. So I really appreciate your honest assessment on vbox Version 7, it helps me avoid any unnecessary headaches. So thank you.

As to your challenge, well half the reason is in my stamen just above. The VM give me the ultimate undo from updates, upgrades and running newer versions of any software. I have been backed in to a corner so many times from updates or other installs that can't be fully undone. So I plan to make a batch file that backup the vm's hard drive and pier backup and the pier to that and so on, so that I have a small history of how everything was set up when it was working grate and just before I did something stupid, or at least let me feel free to try other configurations or upgrades with out being committed to them if they ended up not work out in end.
The other is that I am planning to set up a really complicated system, my so called dream system. And I want to do it, only ones and to be able to rely on it for years and years to come. The music system I am putting together requires me to install so many peaces of software, plugins and tools, and some of them have licenses that are limited to only one computer. This would make it close to impossible to reinstall all of them in the same way after a major system crash. Shore I am trying to keep an organized backup of all installed resources just in case that becomes my only option, But I want more Options! And VM gives me one of best I could possibly ask for. So if my main computer were to die and I had to start all over, my music system would not have to be rebuilt or re-licensed (you never know if a manufacturer will honer a license if it is over 10 years old or consider your reinstall as a second platform install). Plus having the music system on a vm would give me the option to upgrade the Host to windows 11 or even 12 or 13 ect, and the music guest system could stay in the OS that it best works in, and if I had a real problem with my old system and couldn't use it any more, I could move music system to backup platform and continue with me projects as though, Nothing Happened. Now you could say that my approach to this problem is kinda over-kill. But putting the software directly in the machine has been for me under-kill and I have paid for it. Shore there is a disadvantage that I can't give the vm all the memory or cores of the host computer, which is the reason I got such a powerful computer for my music in the first place and by me using the vm,it won't let me take full advantage of it. But the biggest advantage with DAW tech is what I call Retain-ably, (Something you had do in past by running around the studio writing down every fader and knobs positions from a finished project so you can restore it if necessary, which never sounds the same when you do restore it for a remix.) What are DAW give us today is that ability to save the hole project as is, That is when you hit SAVE, literally every thing get saved, Your settings, what are the plug-ins you were using, what presets you called up, what tweaks you made to those presets, I mean everything. So when you call it back the next day, next week, next month, a year some now, 10 year latter, it will come up sounding and working just like the day you saved it, meaning you don't lose your work, but that is only works if all the tools you need are still there and working. So I had though about it for a long time and started to realize that the VM could give me the best possibility of keeping full retain-abliy of any of the options for my music system and so I went for it.

Well I hope my answer was not too long, but as you can see, I am quite passionate about having a real future for my projects and my work. And I do appreciate all of you for helping me make it happen.

Sincerely,

Stefan

[dayzee]

So I totally hear you about all of this.

its a very sane thing.

You might want to consider, longer term, looking at NixOS, which will do what you want in a... well... in a more geeky way. Seems unlikely NixOS will be ready to do the stuff you need for ten years, but, lol, if and when it does, it will be amazing at it.

So I was having these same issues, I switched on the 3d rendering, and that solved the issues. Im using an i7, laptop with integrated graphics, and whatever soundcard.

The sound has stopped being choppy anyway. I use my vm pretty heavily... so its a reasonable test.

I hope your project to make the ultimate sound vm is going well. Im quite interested in that actually. Would be nice to see a blog of progress if that doesnt sound crazy to you.

Ive just switched back from vmware to virtualbox because I was waiting for the new graphics stuff to calm down a bit. VirtualBox is so so so much better. network latency is vastly better, overall performance is noticably better. very happy

Would be nice to get a bit more support setting up a network drive. I have no idea how "windows networking" works, from the host, and I fully dont care about it... the fact that shared directories do super weird things if you keep files open over them is ... well its weird. it would help to explain that to people, or, better, fix it so that it works properly. Seems clear that VMware is mounting some kind of network drive one way or another.

anwyay. great. I do all my work on my VM, and its taken me.. just about 3 hours to switch over from vmware, and everything is much much better yay