Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Discussions related to using VirtualBox on Windows hosts.

Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby InfoSecDr » 27. Apr 2022, 23:26

Win Svr 2019 is running fine on my other Win 11 machines with the exact same settings. I'm at a loss. Here are the particulars:

Host is Windows 11 21H2 Bld 22000.613
VirtualBox 6.1.34.r1506.36
VM is Windows Server 2019
Hyper-V is turned off
Virtualization Based Security is disabled

If I copy the vbox file to another Windows 11 machine, it works fine.

I've attached the log. I would really appreciate it if someone can shed some light on this issue.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby BillG » 28. Apr 2022, 02:18

If you have the green turtle, the Windows hypervisor is still loaded.

See viewtopic.php?f=25&t=99390
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby mpack » 28. Apr 2022, 10:14

InfoSecDr wrote:I've attached the log.

Ummm.

Make sure the VM is fully shut down, then right click it in the manager UI. Select "Show Log" and save "VBox.log" (no other file) to a zip file. Attach the zip here.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby InfoSecDr » 28. Apr 2022, 11:13

I thought I had attached the log to my post.
Attachments
Windows Server 2019-2022-04-27-14-12-17.zip
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby mpack » 28. Apr 2022, 14:27

Thanks for the log, although you don't seem to have followed the instruction to close the VM down before collecting it. As a result the zip only contains part of a log and not all of the comments below are guaranteed to be accurate.

First, the VM is lagging badly. You should give it a second CPU core (not more).

Also you have Hyper-v enabled, which will be the main problem.

00:00:02.182106 HM: HMR3Init: Attempting fall back to NEM: VT-x is not available
00:00:02.232920 NEM: info: Found optional import WinHvPlatform.dll!WHvQueryGpaRangeDirtyBitmap.
00:00:02.232971 NEM: WHvCapabilityCodeHypervisorPresent is TRUE, so this might work...

See HMR3Init: Attempting fall back to NEM (Hyper-V is active).

Currently you are not using a very big display size, but if that was to change then you should install the Guest Additions and enable 3D acceleration.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby InfoSecDr » 28. Apr 2022, 15:59

Thanks, everyone for your help.

I've resolved the issue. I disabled Hyper-V completely and experienced a different problem. The guests failed to start because they were looking for Hyper-V. So I set everything back to normal. Subsequent research tells me that the latest VirtualBox supports Hyper-V and will run on top of it, making VirtualBox a Type 1 Hypervisor rather than a Type 2. It makes sense that Oracle would add that support because the Hyper-V is baked into so much of the HW and OS in Windows 11. I changed the guest chipset from PIIX3 to ICH9 and everything started working fine. I'm thinking that this worked because the laptop has the Intel i7 11th gen, which is pretty new????

Now I can play with the guest config to bump up the CPUs, memory, etc. Thanks again.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby mpack » 28. Apr 2022, 16:34

InfoSecDr wrote:The guests failed to start because they were looking for Hyper-V.

I think you must have misunderstood something, or failed to follow the FAQ, because VirtualBox most definitely does not rely on a competitor's product to function. VirtualBox may or may not tolerate the presence of Hyper-v, but it never likes having it there, and certainly never needs it there.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby InfoSecDr » 28. Apr 2022, 19:11

Yeah, it was a red herring. It worked perfectly for a while, but then when I turned all the startup back on, BitLocker and such it stopped. Still going to research the issue.

BTW: from section 9.32 of the manual

Oracle VM VirtualBox can be used on a Windows host where Hyper-V is running. This is an experimental feature. No configuration is required. Oracle VM VirtualBox detects Hyper-V automatically and uses Hyper-V as the virtualization engine for the host system. The CPU icon in the VM window status bar indicates that Hyper-V is being used.

Note: When using this feature, some host systems might experience significant Oracle VM VirtualBox performance degradation.


This last sentence is what I'm experiencing. So my assessment above was correct, just that changing the chipset did not fix the problem. Now when I disable the hypervisor in the BIOS, the VMs won't start. The error says that they need VT-d and VT-x to run. Turn it back on and the msinfo32 reports a hypervisor.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby InfoSecDr » 28. Apr 2022, 23:27

I have followed the instructions to turn off Hyper-V. I also turned off core isolation, memory access protection and Memory Integrity are turn off. Verified this in the registry. Turned off DMA in the BIOS as well.

FeatureName : Microsoft-Hyper-V-Hypervisor
DisplayName : Hyper-V Hypervisor
Description : Provides the Hyper-V Hypervisor.
RestartRequired : Possible
State : Disabled
CustomProperties :

The log still reports that VirtualBox is trying the access Hyper-V.

00:00:11.245241 GIM: HyperV: Open-source=false Vendor=0x1 OS=0x4 (Windows NT or derivative) Major=10 Minor=0 ServicePack=0 Build=10011
00:00:11.245272 GIM: HyperV: Enabled hypercall page at 0x00000000002f8000
00:00:11.246789 GIM: HyperV: Queried extended hypercall capabilities 0x1 at 0x0000000000007000
00:00:11.246843 GIM: HyperV: Enabled TSC page at 0x000000000000c000 - u64TscScale=0x11c717e00000000 u64TscKHz=0x232809 (2 304 009) Seq=1
00:00:11.246850 TM: Host/VM is not suitable for using TSC mode 'RealTscOffset', request to change TSC mode ignored
00:00:11.246894 GIM0: HyperV: Enabled APIC-assist page at 0x000000000000d000

Not sure why VirtualBox is doing this. I created a new Windows Server 2019 VM, so I could capture a clean log.
Attachments
Windows Server Test-2022-04-28-17-08-29.zip
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby BillG » 29. Apr 2022, 09:15

The Windows hypervisor is still loaded. Did you read right through the article I suggested? If all else has failed, use the bcdedit command to disable hypervisor loading (as described there). This only changes a setting in the boot loader. You need to do a shutdown and reboot to get the OS to load without it. You may need to reboot more than once.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby InfoSecDr » 29. Apr 2022, 15:31

:D

I have followed all of the instructions explicitly to no avail. Multiple times. I even checked the registry to verify that DeviceGuard is not enabled. However, I did discover one registry setting that is not mentioned in any of the published instructions that was set to enabled.

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\DeviceGuard\Scenarios\SystemGuard

I set the Enabled REG_DWORD value to 0 and rebooted the machine. Now msinfo32 shows that virtualization-based security is not enabled. I started VirtualBox and the turtle is gone and the V icon is there. In all fairness, this is a brand new laptop with Windows 11 installed on it. The other machines were Windows 11 upgrades. Upgraded Windows 11 won't turn these things on by default unless they were turned on in Windows 10. So this is a new experience getting a vendor installed Windows 11.

Thanks to BillG and mpack, you guys were a big help.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby BillG » 30. Apr 2022, 04:50

That sounds about right. Just about anything with guard at the end uses hardware virtualization - Credential Guard, Device Guard and so on.

Glad to hear you are up and running.
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Re: Windows Server 2019 running slow with the Green Turtle

Postby scottgus1 » 30. Apr 2022, 22:14

InfoSecDr, just to let you know a few things to help in the future:

GIM: HyperV:

These log messages are from the 'Paravirtualization Interface' (System settings, Acceleration, Paravirtualization Interface), which is a comm channel for virtualization-aware OS's to talk to whatever hypervisor is running them, so they can run more efficiently. Setting this to Hyper-V does not turn on the host OS's Hyper-V. Windows OS's should read 'Default' or 'Hyper-V'.

**************
InfoSecDr wrote:when I disable the hypervisor in the BIOS, the VMs won't start. The error says that they need VT-d and VT-x to run.

Couple of confusions here. VT-d and VT-x in the BIOS are not the 'hypervisor'. They are hardware virtualization systems that enable hypervisors like Virtualbox or Hyper-V to work at all or better. And the error only mentioned VT-x. VT-d isn't used by Virtualbox.

**************
InfoSecDr wrote:VirtualBox supports Hyper-V and will run on top of it, making VirtualBox a Type 1 Hypervisor rather than a Type 2

A type-1 hypervisor touches the hardware first, before any OS. Hyper-V is a type-1 hypervisor. A type-2 hypervisor runs as an app on an OS. A type-2 always runs on top of something else. The fact that Virtualbox can run on Hyper-V (in some hosts) doesn't make Virtualbox a type-1.
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