same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Discussions related to using VirtualBox on Windows hosts.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

oki i created a win10 from iso and went to http \\f.vision/ to check canvas and WOW
it has same canvas as the pc i used to run the virtualbox

so , my question is how to make virualbox win10 that doesnt use the main pc canvas ???
Last edited by mpack on 19. Jul 2021, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Suppress offsite URL.
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by mpack »

I have no idea what a "canvas" is, but if you are connecting to an Internet site that checks your IP address then it will see the same IP for every device on your local network, and that includes VMs. The only way to get a second public IP address is to pay your Internet provider for one, or use a VPN service.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

Its not ip... Canvas is an HTML5 API that is used to draw graphics and animations on a web page via scripting in JavaScript.

https://browserleaks.com/canvas
scottgus1
Site Moderator
Posts: 20965
Joined: 30. Dec 2009, 20:14
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, Linux

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by scottgus1 »

I tried the f.vision and browserleaks websites. They seem to center on the capabilities of the HTML 'canvas' drawing capabilities to also identify the computer browsing the website.

F.vision reported my ISP-provided IP address for my house.

That said, your Virtualbox VM must use NAT , NAT Network, or Bridged to access the internet. See Virtualbox Networks: In Pictures. NAT and NAT Network connect through the host's network stack, so the traffic will appear to be coming from the host. Bridged connects to the LAN outside of the host's stack, so Bridged traffic might appear to be coming from a different PC.

However, it appears that the f.vision website looks at the public ISP IP address, which is the same for all the computes on the LAN, including host and VM. And the rest of the things investigated by the websites appear to center on OS and browser features and functions. If both host and VM are the same OS and web browser, it could be anticipated that much of the data reported would be the same.

If this does not help explain why both host and VM get same results, please identify exactly what you see that shows the point of concern you have.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

canvas has nothing to do with NAT ... its about video card mark

i will post images later to show exactly the problem

is there any way to change video card on each vm ?
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by mpack »

jhon1643 wrote: is there any way to change video card on each vm ?
Each VM is already separate, so I don't know what you hope to gain with that plan. The server is very clearly identifying you by your public IP address, which is shared by every device in your home.

Any private IPs used on your local LAN are just that: private, they allow you to network locally but those private network addresses are not seen by the outside world once your messages cross the gateway to your IP provider.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

what ip ? as i said ..canvas has nothing to do with ips . webrtc is related to ips

any way here is the pic , i created each vm from scratch on same pc and as u can see the canvas , webgl , webrtc are all same

im looking for a way to make each vm with its own values , is that possible ?
Attachments
vms.jpg
vms.jpg (123.49 KiB) Viewed 3427 times
scottgus1
Site Moderator
Posts: 20965
Joined: 30. Dec 2009, 20:14
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, Linux

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by scottgus1 »

IP address is mentioned in the f.vision output, and the consideration of IP address is one thing that we guessed at because you did not define your question accurately enough to show us what you were thinking.

And your picture showing two "canvas" reports from two VMs does not reflect what you stated in the first post:
jhon1643 wrote:i created a win10 from iso and went to http \\f.vision/ to check canvas and WOW
it has same canvas as the pc i used to run the virtualbox
The bolded part means 'same "canvas" in the VM as the physical PC', not 'the same canvas in two VMs'.

That two VMs have the same results is not all that unexpected. They both have the same hardware.

Without knowing more about what "canvas" reads to make the numbers, we could not offer more suggestions. There are three virtual 'video cards' provided by Virtualbox. None of these have relation to the physical video card in the VM. Using one or the other might change the "canvas" numbers. Guest Additions provide drivers for Virtualbox's video cards: having drivers or no drivers may change the "canvas" numbers. Also try running with 3D enabled or not.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

ok some updates

tried the 3d option its not changing the value of canvas
i tried disabling audio and it didnt change the value of audio either

about changing graphic controller it doesnt allow me to change to any other than VboxSVGA , if i chose any other it shows me error "invalid settings detected"

any other ways to change the video card ?
fth0
Volunteer
Posts: 5668
Joined: 14. Feb 2019, 03:06
Primary OS: Mac OS X other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Linux, Windows 10, ...
Location: Germany

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by fth0 »

AFAIU, HTML5 Canvas Fingerprinting is about the difference in rendering pixels. If you take the same OS build with the same set of libraries' builds and the same browser build, I wouldn't expect different fingerprints.

Perhaps you should tell us precisely what you ultimately want to achieve ... ;)
scottgus1
Site Moderator
Posts: 20965
Joined: 30. Dec 2009, 20:14
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, Linux

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by scottgus1 »

jhon1643 wrote:if i chose any other it shows me error "invalid settings detected"
However, it won't necessarily stop you from clicking the OK button anyway.

fth0's points are quite valid. Lest we chase an "XY problem", please tell us what is the original problem you are trying to solve by getting the canvas numbers to be different.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

i need each VM to have its own webgl,canvas etc values . i want each VM to be unique exactly like each pc in the world


any other ideas ? im going to try https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualbox/com ... detection/
and see if helps
scottgus1
Site Moderator
Posts: 20965
Joined: 30. Dec 2009, 20:14
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, Linux

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by scottgus1 »

jhon1643 wrote:i need each VM to have its own webgl,canvas etc values
This is what you're trying to do, but it's not really "why" you're trying to do it.

However, running the same OS and browser in multiple VMs is probably not going to result in different numbers.

The Virtualbox hardware is almost all the same. A few network adapters (get drivers for the adapter you want to use if it's not the default), three different video cards, that's about it. Everything else is the same. The physical CPU is passed into the VM (that's the only piece of physical hardware the VM OS sees) so every VM on one host will have the same CPU. All other host hardware is not seen by the VM's OS and will not contribute to different numbers (unless having 3D acceleration on or not does, also a point to try). You can also run different OS's.

Also, per the linked Reddit topic, there's gobs of ways a program in a VM can tell it's a VM. If you're trying to make a service not know you're in a VM, forum gurus don't hold out hope.
jhon1643
Posts: 19
Joined: 13. Jul 2021, 19:44

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by jhon1643 »

why ? because i want to sell local vms and all big providers (google etc ) will see all of them use same signatures

imagine 100 clients that logto gmail with same browser IDS (canvas etc )
its very bad for security an adding it to terms will kill the idea
scottgus1
Site Moderator
Posts: 20965
Joined: 30. Dec 2009, 20:14
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, Linux

Re: same canvas result on new created virtualbox

Post by scottgus1 »

Ah, now we're getting to it! OK First, consider that Windows can't be sold like that unless you sell the license too. Linux, on the other hand, is open season. That said...

The same thing can happen, for example, when Dell sells a thousand Optiplex 2675's with Windows to a big customer. Same hardware & OS & browser. Yet the planet keeps spinning and users aren't cross-identified, because Dell solves this with "Sysprep". It's a Microsoft solution so the same Windows image can go on all those identical PCs and not have a thousand clones all looking like the same user.

You'd need to do the same thing with your VMs. I don't know if Linux has a Sysprep equivalent, but I'd wager they do.

Also look at the VM's hardware UUID:
https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch08. ... e-modifyvm

vboxmanage modifyvm "vm name" --hardwareuuid

and changing the VM's DMI info:
https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch09.html#changedmi

Alter these before installing the VM, or they might deactivate the OS.
Post Reply