VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Discussions about using Linux guests in VirtualBox.

VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby piggyz » 19. Jan 2019, 14:10

I tested this new 3D graphic interface on many of my machines and I'm definitely unhappy about it.

In years of Virtualbox use, I did never had an application crash under my WIndows 10 Pro host, actual version 10.0.17763.134 .

I wasn't happy with the previous 3D driver, then with some limitations it worked fine for many needed applications (it had a big bug with some Plasma5 components, like Kwin) with a lot of Linux VM guests, never had an application (VM guest) crash.

With the release of VirtualBox 6 (now I do run 6.0.2, latest update), I switched to VMware SVGA driver with confidence on most of my Linux hosts then I'm pretty much unsatisfied.

The problem isn't it is less than half fast compared to the same implementation under native VMware Workstation or lack of OpenGL 3.x support, the real problem is the crash of any Linux Guest I do run with it enabled.

Like I said, I did never had an application crash in ages with modern Virtualbox. With this driver properly installed and running, often if not always, after some guest normal work, the whole virtual machine stop responding and crash with a memory related error message (the memory could not be read).

I think it surely is related with VMSVGA driver becouse if I switch to VBoxVGA driver I can't get 3D working, then the VM do not crash.

Obviously 3D in configuration interface is selected.

I will continue to use the VBoxVGA driver if it could still offer 3D support (like in VB 5.2 and previous) then I see if afte migration from version 5.2.x I do upgrade my VM tools to the latest with this old driver installed, simply 3D is not available anymore.

There is also a VBoxSVGA driver to choose from, then I do not really know what it is, becouse if I choose it, I'm unable to boot into virtual machines graphical interface if I choose this emulation. Which driver it should load?

Now I do ask if this crash issues under VMSVGA driver are known to users and development and how to eventually fix them. Attention: this crash not happen when you boot the machine, it boot fine and it seems to work ok, even if like I said slow, compared to real VMware, then it will crash the machine with the unable to read memory sometimes soon.

If more infos are needed, just ask. It happen on Gentoo, Fedora, Ubuntu, pretty much all the Linux virtual guests I do have around, up and running and updated. I hope I've been clear.
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby socratis » 19. Jan 2019, 17:29

VMSVGA is a new, promising, will-get-there-but-not-yet, option for a vGPU to be used by Linux guests. As this is its first release, it has some issues to work out.

VBoxSVGA is the new analogous for Windows guests. Don't use it on Linux guests.
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby piggyz » 19. Jan 2019, 21:53

Thank you very much Socratis for clarify this things!

So what can I do to have back basic hardware-3D support for my Linux guests using the standard VBoxVGA driver like I had with 5.2.x versions?

With 6.0.2, installing Guest Additions and configuring everything ok as before, updating Guest Additions, I just can get LLVM Pipe software acelleration.

Can you help me?
Last edited by socratis on 21. Jan 2019, 01:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary verbatim quote of the whole previous message.
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Hardware acelleration/3D support in 6.0.2 via VBoxVGA driver?

Postby piggyz » 19. Jan 2019, 22:07

Hello, like in the subject.

Considering in my experience SVGA3D support is still too immature (I do have Linux guests crash with this configured. see my other post in other part of this forum), do someone can still get hardware acceleration/3D support like in 5.2.x with the combination of standard VBoxVGA driver and 6.0.x guest additions?

I can't anymore.

Glxinfo always report I'm in software rendering mode via LLVM pipe and no more Chromium accelleration support.

is ti the same for you guys?
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby socratis » 21. Jan 2019, 01:08

We need to see a complete VBox.log, from a complete VM run, where the problem occurs:
  • Start the VM from cold-boot (not from a paused or saved state) / Observe problem / Shutdown the VM (force close it if you have to).
  • With the VM completely shut down (not paused or saved), right-click on the VM in the VirtualBox Manager and select "Show Log".
  • Save only the first "VBox.log", ZIP it and attach it to your response. See the "Upload attachment" tab below the reply form.
Image
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Re: Hardware acelleration/3D support in 6.0.2 via VBoxVGA driver?

Postby piggyz » 21. Jan 2019, 02:55

here it is...
Attachments
Gentoo 2012-2019-01-21-00-34-01.7z
(25.76 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby socratis » 22. Jan 2019, 03:03

I merged your two posts. We don't need to analyze double the number of logs for the same exact setup...

00:00:05.485972 OpenGL Info: Render SPU: GL_VENDOR:   Intel
00:00:05.485983 OpenGL Info: Render SPU: GL_RENDERER: Intel(R) HD Graphics 530
Your graphics problems may be coming from this. Intel GPUs are not the most powerful, or bug-free ones out there. We have seen a lot of issues with them. See if you can get a better GPU.
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby piggyz » 22. Jan 2019, 13:08

Hi and thank you for your reply.

Well, related with my two problems: they are not exactly the same. With SVGA3D vmware driver, the system CRASH after some time (it can be 30 or 45 or less minutes), probably when you accomplish an action that the driver is not perfectly ready to handle, the other problem, the one with the included log file, is different: it is related to the inability of the I suppose legacy VBoxVGA driver to load 3D hardware support like it did without no problerm in Virtualbox Version 5.2.x and before.

Related with your answer, I need to pinpoint some:

1) The machine you read in the log is a last generation notebook with DOUBLE video cards. One is the Intel 530, an evoluted integrated GPU of the Intel family and the other is a NVIDIA last generation card. I usually do run the Intel becouse more convenient related with power savings and this can make the difference if you need/like good battery performance.

2) If I do switch to NVIDIA card, it doesn't change the results. First of all, the speed of emulation using each of the card, is EXACTLY the same, second Intel used to support hardware 3D passthrough very well before 6.0.0 and the new GuestAdditions Tools were released. In fact, I still have some snapshot of machines running 5.2.x GuestAdditions and they CAN run hardware 3D. The combinantion of upgrading GuestAdditions Tools and the rebuild of the related video driver lead to the NO 3D results.

Obviously before posting and sending the log, I did all the possible try: Nvidia or Intel doesn't change the result.
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby dany321 » 1. Mar 2019, 11:47

Hi socratis and piggyz,

Regarding the use of Intel or NVIDIA GPU,
"Intel GPUs are not the most powerful, or bug-free ones out there. We have seen a lot of issues with them. See if you can get a better GPU."

Does the VM (say linux guest -> ubuntu 18.10) make use of the GPU present in the Host machine (eg. windows Host)?
If yes, Can you please show me the procedure to find out?

Also, How does hardware acceleration happen? How is a vGPU different from Host GPU?

I'm new to this domain and I'm trying to explore. Thanks in advance. :)
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby socratis » 1. Mar 2019, 12:31

dany321 wrote:If yes, Can you please show me the procedure to find out?
No, you can't use your host's GPU, and ch. 9.5. PCI Passthrough explains the why not; you don't have a Linux host to begin with.

dany321 wrote:Also, How does hardware acceleration happen? How is a vGPU different from Host GPU?
A vGPU, also known as virtual/fake GPU, is just that; a series of software calls that translate between what your guest asks for (OpenGL calls) to host's calls to the GPU. Not the most efficient or error-free procedure when you have to translate calls. Think of "Lost in Translation"...
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby dany321 » 7. Mar 2019, 07:42

Hello socratis,

Thanks for the reference to PCI.

But, I have another idea in mind and I'm not sure if it's supported in VBox 6.0.4

With the support of vmsvga drivers, can we not make use of the Host GPU? or is it only w.r.t 'PCI interface using IOMMU'?
For example,
[Linux Guest -> VMSVGA drivers -> VirtualBox Thread-> Windows Host -> Host GPU usage] --->> Is this possible?

The below pattern is shown using PCI interface as in 'ch. 9.5. PCI Passthrough' which is supported as per the document.
[Linux Guest -> PCI -> IOMMU -> Host Device]
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Re: VMSVGA estremely unstable under Linux Guests? Guest crash every time

Postby socratis » 7. Mar 2019, 15:30

No. Re-read the specific chapter, nothing has changed in many, many years.
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
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socratis
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