Tiger guest on Sierra host

Discussions about using Mac OS X guests (on Apple hardware) in VirtualBox.

Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby socratis » 24. Aug 2017, 23:34

PerryG, you are in the correct path, however this CaseSensitive "sensitivity" does not apply solely to Unix based systems. Windows is case sensitive as well.

@'Lothar Loy'
Case sensitivity in the VM name is your problem as PerryG pointed out.
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby Perryg » 25. Aug 2017, 00:05

Granted I have not done all that much with Windows in a long time, but I thought MS was not as concerned. But I leave that with you and other MS reliant users.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby socratis » 25. Aug 2017, 00:07

Perryg wrote:I thought MS was not as concerned

VirtualBox is. And I'm not doing Windows most of the time, I have a VM for that ;)
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby Lothar Loy » 27. Aug 2017, 18:25

Thank you,Socratis

I tried the following:

Create machine from scratch from Terminal


VBoxManage createvm --name “MOJAVE1” --register

Virtual machine '“MOJAVE1”' is created and registered.
UUID: 23939345-92db-4b08-8a75-755705e639db
Settings file: '/Users/sylviakurth/VirtualBox VMs/“MOJAVE1”/“MOJAVE1”.vbox

This does not create the settings that you get when you do NEW from scratch. So i created a seperate one with NEW and copied the settings.'

Sylvias-MacBook-Air:~ sylviakurth$ VBoxManage list vms
"“MOJAVE1”" {23939345-92db-4b08-8a75-755705e639db}

Sylvias-MacBook-Air:~ sylviakurth$ VBoxManage modifyvm “MOJAVE1” --cpu-profile "Intel Xeon X5482 3.20GHz"
Sylvias-MacBook-Air:~ sylviakurth$
Running the vm brought me to this, please see attachment
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby okiuss » 27. Aug 2017, 19:15

Just tried it for fun :
Tiger guest on 10.12.6 with VirtualBox 5.1.26

Create ISO Images of the installation media with dd
dd if=/dev/disk2 of=MacBookProOriginalDisk1.iso
dd if=/dev/disk2 of=MacBookProOriginalDisk2.iso

Create new virtual machine „tigeronsierra“ with the Mac OS X (32 bit) template
without modifications

change configuration:
remove DVD from SATA controller
add IDE Controller
change IDE type from PIIX4 to ICH6
add ISO image of installation disk1 to IDE controller (primary master)
remove hard disk from SATA controller
add hard disk vdi to IDE controller (primary slave)

VBoxManage modifyvm tigeronsierra --cpuidset 00000000 00000001 756e6547 6c65746e 49656e69
VBoxManage setextradata tigeronsierra VBoxInternal/Devices/efi/0/Config/DmiSystemProduct MacBookPro3,1
VBoxManage setextradata tigeronsierra VBoxInternal2/EfiGopMode 5
Start the vm

When the installer asks for destination,
start Disk Utility:
choose the 20GB VBOX Harddisk
and erase it with Mac OS Extended (journaled) and arbitrary name
close Disk Utility and continue with the installer
choose Customize and deselect Printer Drivers,Additional Fonts,Language Translations und Bundled Applications

Shutdown the vm when the installer restarts
remove the IDE controller
add SATA controller
add empty CDROM to SATA Port 0
add hard disk vdi to SATA Port 2

Start the vm again
If it hangs with still waiting for root device -> CMD-R

Update MacOS
Last edited by okiuss on 30. Aug 2017, 07:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby michaln » 27. Aug 2017, 22:42

I have recently done a little survey of OS X Tiger discs/ISOs available to me. I won't go into the obvious issues like the fact that DVDs shipped with Macs are tied to the specific model.

What I found is that the Intel version of OS X was undergoing very rapid evolution in the Tiger era. The Darwin kernel had x86 support for a long time (that predates OS X and probably goes back to NeXTSTEP/OpenStep) and it was fairly generic, with support for CPUs not only from Intel but also AMD, Cyrix, and others. The situation dramatically changed when Apple released Intel Macs, because the early models were all laptops (MacBook Pro, MacBook) or built with laptop parts (iMac). Those all needed good power management. I strongly suspect the power management code was either co-written by Intel or based on NDA-ed documentation provided by Intel, and that is why Apple did not publish the source code of early Intel OS X releases and why they never published the source code for the dreaded AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement.kext.

Early Tiger releases were incredibly picky about the CPU and platform they ran on. What's more, the behavior was different in pretty much every single Tiger update. It is also painfully obvious that Apple did not care one bit about what happened when these OS versions were booted on unsupported hardware, which includes newer Macs. Sometimes the OS just crashes. Sometimes it tries to panic, but crashes anyway because the panic is happening too early. The end-user experience is that the OS triple-faults/reboots with no hint what might possibly be going wrong.

Apple never considered any of this a problem; their solution was to ship every Mac with an installed OS, and users are not supposed to install older OS versions on newer hardware. Of course Mac owners and Apple don't always see eye-to-eye.

OS X Tiger generally only works with Intel Core and Core 2 CPUs, and for Core 2 it's not necessarily the newer models. The Xeon X5482 CPU profile in VirtualBox is actually too new for some Tiger releases, even though it was created on an old Mac Pro. Tiger definitely will not run with any post-Core 2 processor (same goes for older Leopard versions).

From what I've seen so far, Tiger 10.4.5 is a lost cause. Tiger 10.4.10 and perhaps 10.4.6 can be made to work with some cajoling. I have not tried 10.4.4, 10.4.8, and 10.4.9 because I don't have any media. Tiger 10.4.7 and 10.4.11 (the last update) are probably the best bet. And as of August 2017, Tiger can still be updated via Software Update to the latest (kudos to Apple).
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby socratis » 27. Aug 2017, 23:35

michaln wrote:The Xeon X5482 CPU profile in VirtualBox is actually too new for some Tiger releases, even though it was created on an old Mac Pro.

Unfortunately, that's the oldest shipping profile for a --cpu-profile. What's available at the moment:

    Xeon X5482 3.20GHz  Q4'07   Server      Harpertown
    Core i7-2635QM Q1'11 Mobile Sandy Bridge
    Core i7-3960X Q4'11 Desktop Sandy Bridge E
    Core i5-3570 Q2'12 Desktop Ivy Bridge
    Core i7-5600U Q1'15 Mobile Broadwell
    Core i7-6700K Q3'15 Desktop Skylake
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby michaln » 28. Aug 2017, 09:30

Perryg wrote:Granted I have not done all that much with Windows in a long time, but I thought MS was not as concerned. But I leave that with you and other MS reliant users.

You are both right. Windows file systems are as a rule not case sensitive. But the VirtualBox VM names are not file names (they may or may not correspond to directory names), and the VM name comparisons in VirtualBox are case sensitive on all platforms.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby michaln » 28. Aug 2017, 12:03

socratis wrote:Unfortunately, that's the oldest shipping profile for a --cpu-profile.

We also have profiles for Pentium M and Pentium 4, but those are no good anyway because OS X won't run on those CPUs. If you mean profiles that correspond to CPUs found in Intel Macs then yes, the X5482 is the oldest we currently have.

The newer CPUs are much less troublesome because starting around late Snow Leopard, OS X disables a lot of the tricky stuff when it sees that it's running in a VM.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby Lothar Loy » 28. Aug 2017, 15:29

Socratis,PerryG,Okiuss,michain
Many thanks for the recent posts.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby Lothar Loy » 29. Aug 2017, 15:53

socratis wrote:@'Lothar Loy'
Case sensitivity in the VM name is your problem as PerryG pointed out.

I would need some more hints in order to solve that.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby socratis » 29. Aug 2017, 16:35

Use the correct case. There is a difference between "Rosinante" and "ROSINANTE".
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby Lothar Loy » 30. Aug 2017, 16:26

Thank You, Socratis

Yes, understood.

But I am still not sure how to figure out the correct case.
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby Lothar Loy » 30. Aug 2017, 16:37

Thank You, Michain

"Tiger 10.4.10 and perhaps 10.4.6 can be made to work with some cajoling."

I do have these grey restore DVD's Tiger 10.4.10.

Do you have some hints in regards to "some cajoling"?
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Re: Tiger guest on Sierra host

Postby michaln » 31. Aug 2017, 13:51

Lothar Loy wrote:Do you have some hints in regards to "some cajoling"?

Tell me what problem(s) exactly you have and I'll try to help.
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