OpenGL upside down?

Discussions about using Windows guests in VirtualBox.
mrmartin
Posts: 6
Joined: 3. Feb 2021, 15:58
Primary OS: Ubuntu other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: various MS and Linux

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by mrmartin »

Short update:
I finally got this answer from BricsCAD support:
Dear Martin,
BricsCAD is not officially supported on virtual machines, but only native environment, exactly because of the way virtual machines handle graphic card resources.
We also do not prohibit the use of BricsCAD in a virtual environment, but please be aware that it is not recommended.
Thank you for understanding!
Kind regards,
:-(
I will try to contact RedSDK directly.
ehrichweiss23
Posts: 6
Joined: 9. Jun 2021, 22:27

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by ehrichweiss23 »

Host; Arch Linux
Guest: Windows 7
Virtualbox: 6.1.22
AMD (I think it's a Picasso but not 100% on that...it's a new laptop), and I was experiencing the same on an Intel machine with Intel gfx

I can completely confirm that at least part of this problem is with OpenGL because an app I use specifically allows you to disable OpenGL rendering and when I do, the text/graphics in that app reverts to right-side up. I only just now found this setting and until then thought it might have been an issue with Windows 7 and so this thread didn't appear in any of my searches. Earlier I tried doing a linked clone of my guest(so I wouldn't lose anything just in case) and upgrading it to Win8.1 and thenWin 10 but that had the same issues.

Now, someone suggested re-installing Guest Additions without the Direct 3D drivers and then re-enable 3D acceleration but if I do that then I get a totally blank window on the app if I enable OpenGL in the app.

I had a couple other apps that caused me the same problems but I've since migrated them to my Win 10 hardware since I didn't have a choice otherwise. I'll try to find those apps and see if disabling 3D accel fixes the issue.

I can include a log later once I have (real) internet again in a couple hours or so.
Last edited by ehrichweiss23 on 10. Jun 2021, 01:36, edited 1 time in total.
ehrichweiss23
Posts: 6
Joined: 9. Jun 2021, 22:27

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by ehrichweiss23 »

Here's the log with 3D accel enabled, the Direct3D driver installed and my app using the OpenGL renderer. Hope it helps
Attachments
vmlog.zip
(46.16 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by mpack »

If you read the discussion above you'll see that this appears to be a problem with specific apps, and I'm not convinced it's a VirtualBox problem at all.
ehrichweiss23
Posts: 6
Joined: 9. Jun 2021, 22:27

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by ehrichweiss23 »

mpack wrote:If you read the discussion above you'll see that this appears to be a problem with specific apps, and I'm not convinced it's a VirtualBox problem at all.
I have read the discussion and while the problem might be with specific apps, it does only happen with Virtualbox for me. I don't know if you mean it would be doing this on standard hardware but if so I can tell you that's definitely not the case because this app runs fine on bare metal. Note, you also hypothesized that it was due to Intel hardware but I'm using AMD.

Edit: I just checked and at least the app I'm currently referencing doesn't appear to be a Qt application but I can't say for certain as I don't know how to tell other than to look for some of Qt's DLLs.

Second Edit: I just checked the "testproj" Qt app that's listed in one of the tickets and the text was indeed upside down so Qt could be part of the issue.
Chucky
Posts: 1
Joined: 31. Aug 2021, 02:25

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by Chucky »

Unchecking the "Enable 3D Acceleration" box in the virtual machine's display settings fixed this issue for me.
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by mpack »

Chucky wrote:Unchecking the "Enable 3D Acceleration" box in the virtual machine's display settings fixed this issue for me.
Well of course. Acceleration artifacts disappear if you turn acceleration off, but that's hardly a solution of you need 3D acceleration.
Paragon1970
Posts: 1
Joined: 1. Jan 2022, 20:43

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by Paragon1970 »

In my view this appears to be a VirtualBox issue since the app I am employing functions and renders as per design when employing both native host and VmWare Workstation.
If this issue occurred on both Vmware Workstation and VirtualBox I would be leaning towards the underlying subsystems that both vendors employ but this issue is specific to VirtualBox with 3d acceleration enabled.
Of course it entirely possible that Vmware may have produced a non standard workaround to resolve this issue and maybe that is what is required with VirtualBox!?

Host display adapter: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 3GB running latest drivers from Nvidia
VirtualBox: v6.1.30 r148432 (QT5.6.2)

VirtualBox:
Win10 Host : Win10 Guest, 3d acceleration enabled, reversed text and image rendering
MacBook Pro : Win10 Guest, 3d acceleration enabled, reversed text and image rendering

3d acceleration disabled : viewport correctly renders.

VmWare Workstation
Win10 host : Win10 guest, 3d acceleration enabled, functions and renders as expected

Win10 native host
App functions and renders as expected
JustinH
Posts: 106
Joined: 6. Aug 2015, 05:09

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by JustinH »

I see this kind of thing in some desktop applications that render a web page internally, like for a welcome page/start page for the app.
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by mpack »

That doesn't sound like a likely candidate to me. Presumably every web browser on the platform renders web pages internally, and I would think some of the discussion above would have mentioned that web pages appear upside down.

The problem seems to be confined to particular apps, so I believe it's going to be a bug in a math or graphics library that all those apps use.
jorgensen
Posts: 583
Joined: 20. Oct 2009, 01:22
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, LinuxMint

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by jorgensen »

Paragon1970 wrote: Win10 Host : Win10 Guest, 3d acceleration enabled, reversed text and image rendering
3d acceleration disabled : viewport correctly renders.
The 3D acceleration selection is not an option for Windows 10!
The 3D driver revert the guest display specs to XP level, e.g. DirectX 9 and OpenGL 1.2
The standard Windows 10 display setting supports DirectX fully, but not OpenGL.
Many programs using OpenGL does not check for an to old version.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104152#p507429
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by mpack »

jorgensen wrote: The 3D acceleration selection is not an option for Windows 10!
The 3D driver revert the guest display specs to XP level, e.g. DirectX 9 and OpenGL 1.2
I don't know where you get your information from, but that is straight up wrong, wrong, wrong.

Here is a screenshot from my own OpenGL 3D CAD viewer running inside a Windows 10 VM running on VirtualBox 6.1.30 with matching GAs on a Win10 host. I asked my viewer to display its "About box", which includes details of the OpenGL vendor and version currently in use. You will note that the vendor is NOT Microsoft (i.e. not the old GL built into Windows), and hence the version is NOT 1.2.
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (104.23 KiB) Viewed 7167 times
In fact the OpenGL version is 2.1, the same as it has ever been in VirtualBox when 3D acceleration is enabled. Version 2.1 is not useless, it supports vertex buffer objects, which is pretty much all you need to get good performance on large 3D models.
jorgensen
Posts: 583
Joined: 20. Oct 2009, 01:22
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Windows, LinuxMint

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by jorgensen »

Dear mpack,
For now I cannot use the 3D acceleration setting, because the guest crashes with the Intel 11th gen GPU driver.
From earlier test I remembered it as version 1.2, but properly should have been version 2.1 as you point out.
Anyway version 2.1 is a 15 year old standard where XP is 20 year old.
With Windows 10 most of the standard EDA programs have problems with this old version of OpenGL.
With the software solution they work pretty well, but without any gain in performance, etc.
The statement of 3D acceleration is not an option in Windows 10 is the similar old version of DirectX.
Screenshot from the 'OpenGL Extensions Viewer' with the software implementation.
OpenGL.png
OpenGL.png (73.52 KiB) Viewed 7156 times
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: OpenGL upside down?

Post by mpack »

The age of a standard is not a direct guide to its usefulness. As you see above my own OpenGL apps run fine. OpenGL 2.1 may not be great for gaming, but no VM is.
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