Windows 98SE Protection Error

Discussions about using Windows guests in VirtualBox.
Muilisx
Posts: 3
Joined: 5. Feb 2019, 06:12

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by Muilisx »

Ahhhh, CMD
:)
Muilisx
Posts: 3
Joined: 5. Feb 2019, 06:12

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by Muilisx »

OMG!
Fennels Figure Math is WORKING!

OMG! :D

Audio is a little wacky when multiple sound waves are going at the same time but I can deal with it!

Unless there's an audio work around!
megamanyoutuber
Posts: 6
Joined: 27. Oct 2019, 13:25

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by megamanyoutuber »

Muilisx wrote:I would like to try the

"VBoxManage modifyvm "<VM name>" --cpu-profile "Intel Core i5-3570""

However, I do not know where to go to do this? Can someone please enlighten me?
To do this, you need to go to virtualbox folder, by default it is C:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox
socratis
Site Moderator
Posts: 27330
Joined: 22. Oct 2010, 11:03
Primary OS: Mac OS X other
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Win(*>98), Linux*, OSX>10.5
Location: Greece

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by socratis »

@megamanyoutuber
I believe that 'Muilisx' found the answer when the said "Ahhhh, CMD"... ;)
Do NOT send me Personal Messages (PMs) for troubleshooting, they are simply deleted.
Do NOT reply with the "QUOTE" button, please use the "POST REPLY", at the bottom of the form.
If you obfuscate any information requested, I will obfuscate my response. These are virtual UUIDs, not real ones.
Kumba
Posts: 43
Joined: 2. Aug 2011, 05:48
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Win311, Win98, NT4, Win2k, Win2k3, Win2k12R2, OpenBSD, MS-DOS 7.10, NW312, NW42SP9, NW65SP8, Haiku

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by Kumba »

So my guess is the "Windows Protection Error" is a conflict between SciTech Display Doctor, VT-x/AMD-V, and Win98 under Vbox 6.x, likely on AMD hardware only. The only way I can run my install of Win98SE is to fully disable VT-x/AMD-V, nested paging, etc, and set the paravirtualization to "None". It runs slow, but that's the only way it'll run.

If you disable the SciTech driver and switch to MS's standard VGA driver at 640x480, then you can start booting with VT-x/AMD-V enabled, but even that is causing significant grief on my VM copy. I usually get page fault errors, non-fatal BSoDs, and in some cases, errors about missing DLLs where the front part of the DLL name is an unprintable ASCII character (explorer.exe failed to load, must re-install, the message box said). Turn off the VT-x/AMD-V stuff, and the system boots fine. So there's also a conflict with the virtualization help from the CPU. And I suspect this is the root bug -- it's probably causing grief w/ SciTech's Nucleus driver, and that's stopping the OS from loading early.

I opened Ticket #17502 back in Jan 2018 for this, but other than a snarky comment from socratis there, no further activity has happened on that ticket. This only became an issue after I upgraded my host hardware to an AMD Ryzen. On the previous Ivy-Bridge processor I had, Win98 worked fine with virtualization extensions, so I suspect there's a very subtle bug in the AMD-V-specific bits of VBox's code.

I have also noticed that if you don't grab the window with the mouse, the OS will sometimes stall out during the boot, but then resume after you give the mouse a jiggle. Smells like something weird in the emulated/virtualized interrupt handling there.
UnAntonien
Posts: 11
Joined: 28. Jan 2020, 22:15

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by UnAntonien »

Hello (and in particular @Kumba),
I have a similar situation, but not exactly the same.
On my previous PC (Quad core, Win 7 32bits) and previous VM, my Win 98 VM was fine, even with SciTech driver.

Diff n°1 : On my new PC (Ryzen 3700, Win 10 64 bits) and new VM 6.1, Win 98 VM has problems, even without SciTech driver :
i can't have nested paging (so can't have "nested AMD-V").
Diff n°2 : paravirtualization to Default or None or Hyper-V does not change anything

And, even without nested paging, and with paravirtualization set to None, i am unable to use Scitech driver :
after install/reboot, no graphic adapter set

Something not clear to me : On my new PC (Ryzen 3700, Win 10 64 bits) and new VM 6.1, the virtualbox shows in summary of the VM / System that i have "Acceleration VT-x / AMD-V", however, in my System / Processor page, i have "nested VT-x / AMD-V" unset. Maybe "VT-x / AMD-V" and "nested VT-x / AMD-V" are not the same thing ? In this case, (how) can i unset "VT-x / AMD-V" ?
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by mpack »

UnAntonien wrote:Maybe "VT-x / AMD-V" and "nested VT-x / AMD-V" are not the same thing ?
They are not the same. "Nested" is about showing VT-x to the guest, which would be pointless for Win98 which has no idea what VT-x is.
UnAntonien wrote:In this case, (how) can i unset "VT-x / AMD-V" ?
You can't. VirtualBox 6.1.x requires VT-x or AMD-v for all VMs. And you can be sure that this does not stop Win98SE from working, it never did: I'm looking at my own Win98SE VM right now, running under 6.1.2. That desktop is 1024x768x32bpp with the BearWindows driver. Sound works too. And it was installed with ACPI enabled, so no problem with CPU hoggage.
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UnAntonien
Posts: 11
Joined: 28. Jan 2020, 22:15

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by UnAntonien »

Hello
@mpack
Thank you for your explainations
2 months later, i am back trying something.. still no success with these Scitech drivers on the Win98 VM on my new computer.
I just posted there viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33359&start=105 before to see i already posted here..
I already have heard of BearWindows driver and was about to install them when i discovered : 1- it is manual and undocumented, 2- read that this was buggy
When you write "see on my side, it's OK" : it does not explain the differences i have. It just make me think i could try the "difficult and buggy" BearWindows driver if i have enough courage.
(And BTW, but this is another story, on my old Win7 32 bit computer i have also a working Win 3.11 VM wich is out of order now on my new computer)
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by mpack »

UnAntonien wrote:It just make me think i could try the "difficult and buggy" BearWindows driver if i have enough courage.
If you're expecting something super user-friendly from the Win98 era then I'd think again, the BearWindows install procedure is typical. And nor do I agree that the "difficult and buggy" description is earned. I have never had a problem with it.

As to whether you should try it, what exactly is the downside? assuming you make a backup of the VM first of course.
UnAntonien
Posts: 11
Joined: 28. Jan 2020, 22:15

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by UnAntonien »

@mpack
I think explanations on how to install this driver would be appreciated.
I known there are generic informations on the internet about how to manualy instally graphic drivers but well..
I have tried a way and this is not ok :
into Standard PCI graphic adapter, Card, Modify, next, list, have disk, pointed to 064MB (i just guess, as i have configured 64Mb on VM), selected vbemp.inf, next, black screen.. i reboot.. "windows has not stopped correctly" then i have desktop, but nothing change, i do it again, the graphic card has changed to "VBE Miniport - Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA), i can change color and resolution (but in 16 bits only 800x480 or 256 colors 1024x768), reboot.. stuck to a reboot message.. must reboot via VM, but no change in the resolution..
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by mpack »

Windows 98 tuition is a bit beyond my purview, and in any case I don't remember the details. The usual rules for Win98 installs will apply: If there's a setup program, run it. If it's a driver and there's a PIF file, right click the latter and choose "install".

Also, it's the universal BearWindows driver you need, not the ancient "VirtualBox" one (if present).
UnAntonien
Posts: 11
Joined: 28. Jan 2020, 22:15

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by UnAntonien »

@mpack
I have all that is displayed here (bearwindows site w98 example): https://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/w98-1.png (except it does not propose 32 bits but 16 bits)
However if i try a resolution other than 640x480 16 colors, it won't be accepted after reboot
More precisely i loose the VM window when it reboot, i must "switch on" manualy again in virtualbox and then i have the text menu with the safe mode or normal mode proposal, i choose normal, and in desktop a popup saying "problem with display parameters, card type not correct or parameter not adapted to your hardware".
Last edited by UnAntonien on 4. Apr 2020, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
mpack
Site Moderator
Posts: 39156
Joined: 4. Sep 2008, 17:09
Primary OS: MS Windows 10
VBox Version: PUEL
Guest OSses: Mostly XP

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by mpack »

800x600 or 640x480 in 16 color (i.e. 4 bit, not 16 bit) is a normal default for VGA.

I think we have to stop there. You haven't shown me any evidence that you are suffering from the "Protection Error" boot error, which means that your posts are off topic in this topic. Please start your own topic and provide the normal diagnostics, in particular a zipped VM log.
UnAntonien
Posts: 11
Joined: 28. Jan 2020, 22:15

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by UnAntonien »

You are right, my subject was not anymore the Windows 98SE Protection Error
I have now updated another of my post, here : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33359&p=473185#p473185
My apologizes for this thread.
UnAntonien
Posts: 11
Joined: 28. Jan 2020, 22:15

Re: Windows 98SE Protection Error

Post by UnAntonien »

@mpack
But i DO HAVE the Windows 98SE Protection Error when i follow exactly this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XHD6mB9b88
I get the Windows 98SE Protection at the step at 1:58 in this video
Only difference is i don't check "nested paging" (at 0:45) because this makes dll problems (.., shell32,..) at startup on desktop

Edit : Oooh, but.. it seems there could be a workaround : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dthSP0n ... e=youtu.be
Yeeessss !
Solved by (for me, Ryzen 3700x, but it depends of your CPU, you probably can't set there something better than your real CPU) :
C:\MesApplis\Outils\VirtualBox>VBoxManage.exe modifyvm "Win 98 SE Fr VDI Net Sound 640x480 test" --cpu-profile "Intel Core i7-6700K"
Command syntax and examples are there also : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84423

Note : during the process described in 1st video i had sometimes some strange errors, sometime i had to reboot via VM, but it's OK
Then i now have to manualy force shutdown via virtualbox each time i want shutdown, this is not annoying.
I have my 32bit color high res !
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