Windows 10 Build 14986 BOD

[scottgus1]

Not that I want to contribute any thunder to this squall, Squall and others who think Oracle should chase the Insider Previews, but aren't betas and release candidates and previews intended to find problems in the software being beta'd, RC'd or previewed? They're not for fixing problems in the programs one installs in the beta. "Service Packs" are used for compiling fixed issues in software after General Release has happened.

The Insider Previews are betas & release candidates, etc. They're not General Release, like the regular OS discs folks go buy in the store. Anniversary Edition might be thought of as a Service Pack. To program to a beta today when the contents of the beta might change tomorrow is frankly a waste of time and money. And even if Oracle tried to follow the Insider Previews, time would still need to be allowed to see what has been changed. To expect developers to have a new version out tomorrow in conjunction with the new beta release isn't practical either.

Also, the money argument applies here. MichalN and Frank have explained that Oracle has rich paying customers that paid for licensing and support, and they have first dibs as to what gets fixed. And the devs already have their hands full with customers' requests and bugs. Whatever gets upgraded in paid-for Virtualbox filters down to free Virtualbox. As brought out above, It is highly unlikely that these customers are running their businesses on an Insider Preview. So any urge for the developers to program to an Insider Preview has to be redirected.

Insider Previews are probably good for showing the devs what is changing and what they should shoot for when the next Service Pack is out, but, respectfully, expecting them to chase every bit change up until then isn't reasonable. Nor is expecting Virtualbox to run on a beta "Insider Preview". If it's that important for Virtualbox to run, folks should pony up and get a regular edition of Windows for production purposes and keep the Insider Previews for entertainment and education.

[Simple07]

Of course no professional business runs its IT on beta, in fact many run on release (n-1). But software partners have development offices at each others' premises (I am speaking from first hand experience) and they would provide each other with the latest development long before the official release. What Microsoft has done by introducing the Insider Program is to increased their testing base to get faster feedback for focused/speedier development.

Oracle will have to fix this issue as the majority of business customers use the Windows platform, and these business run various applications on the virtualised Windows setup, all that has to be tested for reliability and major bugs would have been ironed long before the release date. If some customers decide to update on the first release date of Windows 10 RS2, then it better be working, you wouldn't want a business application crashing and business affected due to incompatibility.

But I do remember situations where large software vendors did not help in fixing major issues (by releasing patch to their software on a specific platform) promptly to affect sales of particular competitor's product. I have seen this more than once and I hope Oracle is NOT doing that now.

Forget about the rhetoric, some business "partners" can twist arms and pull ears, if Windows RS2 release date is March, then expect this issue to be sorted soon.

[socratis]

What Microsoft has done by introducing the Insider Program is to increased their testing base to get faster feedback for focused/speedier development.

On the contrary, what MS has done is to make a Big, Freaking mess of the whole process. Your logic applies to software partners and developers, not my mom, who doesn't have a clue what on earth an alpha/beta is, but she could easily go for the insider builds.

When you are in a constant beta, expect beta quality software, expect crashes, and do NOT demand immediate fixes. You are not in the center of the universe. Heck, you didn't even pay for it! Beggars can't be choosers...

As long as my mom can understand that, she could be in the beta. Otherwise it's best for everybody if she sits with the latest general release. She doesn't seem to have the stomach for betas.

Do not misunderstand that I'm saying feedback is not necessary. It absolutely is. As long as it is commonly understood that an immediate reaction is not guaranteed. And, by far, not demanded...

[Simple07]

This software is released for those who signed the Insiders Program membership, not anyone can get a copy (theoretically), and if "your mum" has received a legitimate copy (having signed the Insiders Program) then she knows the terms and conditions of operating such software..

Microsoft has practically created a large group of beta testers, especially that some reporting is done automatically in the background and "all mums" know that.

[Simple07]

Last night my test system updated to Windows 10 RS2 15007 Prerelease.170107-1846, this is running on VirtualBox 5.1.13r112787 with VBoxGuestAdditions_5.1.13-112770. 3D and 2D are both ON as well as USB and Shared folders.

While it is too early to conclude, this update has been running with no crashes and the screen resizing is cleaner without artifacts. I tried all things (known to me) that would lead to crashing, but it seems reasonably stable. Usually the system would crash within the first few minutes of operation unless 3D and 2D are turned OFF.

[socratis]

Well, that's got to be a first!
First time that a new version of Windows comes out and VirtualBox doesn't crash.
Thanks for the heads up!

[squall leonhart]

Not that I want to contribute any thunder to this squall, Squall and others who think Oracle should chase the Insider Previews, but aren't betas and release candidates and previews intended to find problems in the software being beta'd, RC'd or previewed? They're not for fixing problems in the programs one installs in the beta. "Service Packs" are used for compiling fixed issues in software after General Release has happened.

The issue is caused by a function in the virtualbox display driver, due to a permanent change coming to Creator Update (security hardening).

The issue is on Oracle to fix.
No other IHV or IVV gets away with broken drivers on the release of a new operating system, and nobody should be making it ok for Oracle to be the only one that does.

if Windows RS2 release date is March, then expect this issue to be sorted soon.

gold stamping is 1703, mass release is in april.

On the contrary, what MS has done is to make a Big, Freaking mess of the whole process. Your logic applies to software partners and developers, not my mom, who doesn't have a clue what on earth an alpha/beta is, but she could easily go for the insider builds.

I do not disagree, what we have now is a 6 month service pack schedule that is not forgiving for vendors or the end users.[/quote]

[Perryg]

No other IHV or IVV gets away with broken drivers on the release of a new operating system

Ah but it is not a new operating system and that's the point. MS releases a package and then others fix the drivers, then MS changes the package and the way it works. This is not a service pack or a release. It is a revolving door beta that should be treated as such and not an official released OS.

The simple fact that you got it for free should tell you all you need to know. It used to be that the beta versions is where all the testing was done and specific drivers were developed or tweaked to work, which was given to a selected few that understood that things could break during this cycle. Not any more. MS has thrown this out to everyone and now instead of a few hundred that understood the process, there is hundreds of thousands of beta testers that have no idea how it really works and use this OS simply because it is free.

[Simple07]

Just upgraded to VirtualBox-5.1.14-112924-Win with the associated Extension_Pack and VBoxGuestAdditions. My Windows client is 10 RS2 15007.1000.
The system no longer crashes and the screen resizing is beautifully smooth, and an error which I was getting having reinstalled my (Citroen) Diagnosis software on this platform seems to have disappeared after VirtualBox upgrade!!.

B.t.w, this statement in the change log "Windows hosts: another fix for recent Windows 10 hosts", not sure if it is at all related..

Also, I have noticed reference to fixes in previous releases to problems occurring in non GA Windows e.g in VB 5.1.10 "Windows hosts: hardening fix for Windows 10 build 14971 (bug #16202)"

[tokyotea01]

Not at all the same result here:

I have the same VirtualBox version for Debian Jessie, with appropriate Extension Pack, and am running the same number version of the Insider Guest client. Video has once again returned to a bright 4:3 box in the middle of my wide screen monitor -- back to a max resolution of 1400x1050 with the VirtualBox driver and 1280x800 with the Windows video driver (it's like 2006 all over again). I'd just fixed a load of crashing and language problems that began with Build 14986 by reinstalling the WIN OS from an .iso of Build 15002, which immediately upgraded to Build 15007 and ran beautifully. The latest upgrade (sic) to Build 15014 broke a couple of things all over again (language settings, mostly), but the only one I cannot fix is VirtualBox video.

In the course of making WIN 10 Insider run correctly in the Build 14986->Build 15002 instability debacle, I have now switched off Paravirtualization and enabled both 3D and 2D acceleration. Video memory is maxed at 256Mb. I have tried switching 3D and 2D off, alternately, and all that has done is make Build 15014 want to "clean" itself, which is MS-speak for "uninstall everything not Microsoft supplied". I have fooled around with the other settings as recommended in this discussion as well as one other discussion elsewhere in the Windows Guest Forum with no appreciable change in video size or performance.

Have I reached the "bite the bullet and wait for the next upgrade" wall or is there something more I could try?

[bobsagetfullhouse]

Just upgraded to VirtualBox-5.1.14-112924-Win with the associated Extension_Pack and VBoxGuestAdditions. My Windows client is 10 RS2 15007.1000.
The system no longer crashes and the screen resizing is beautifully smooth, and an error which I was getting having reinstalled my (Citroen) Diagnosis software on this platform seems to have disappeared after VirtualBox upgrade!!.

B.t.w, this statement in the change log "Windows hosts: another fix for recent Windows 10 hosts", not sure if it is at all related..

Also, I have noticed reference to fixes in previous releases to problems occurring in non GA Windows e.g in VB 5.1.10 "Windows hosts: hardening fix for Windows 10 build 14971 (bug #16202)"

I have tried this version as well as the latest preview release of VirtualBox and I still receive a BSOD after doing my first restart after installing the creators update.

[tokyotea01]

I have tried this version as well as the latest preview release of VirtualBox and I still receive a BSOD after doing my first restart after installing the creators update.

Have you tried reinstalling the OS from the latest .iso and letting your system upgrade from that point? It solved most problems for me ... except my video issues once the creators update hit.

Image is at: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/softwar ... ewadvanced (link appears truncated but works from my browser. If there is a problem for you -- missing section is "software-download/windowsinsiderpreviewadvanced")

You can burn a disk or USB stick or, if you are as lazy as me, D/L into a non-C:\ WIN directory and double click the .iso image to start the reinstallation.

[Simple07]

I don't like upgrading having installed few applications, it usually have some weird leftover behavior of some sort, I let Windows download the update, then copy it and create an ISO for a fresh clean installation.. I now have 15014 running no crashes as well (but I cannot copy between Host and Client desktops).

There is however one recent strange behavior with VirtualBox which looks like being related to memory management. If I have been working with my computer for a long time, operating and closing various applications, then run VirtualBox and try to start Windows 10 RS2 15007/15014 (did not try it with older releases), Windows seems to freeze while starting, only rebooting the main computer would make it work. This behavior is not exhibited with VMware Workstation, in fact when VirtualBox freezes, I close it and run Workstation and all is fine!!

The above should be a ticket on its own, but I thought I may as well mention it..

I have just upgraded to the latest VirtualBox VirtualBox-5.1.15-113016-Win, If I click on Devices -> Insert Guest Additions CD Image, it gets version VBoxGuestAdditions_5.1.15-113014, and if choose to download it from the test files whats available is VBoxGuestAdditions_5.1.15-113016!!.

I noticed that some times that the number displayed in the Dialog Box while installing is the same in both the acquired and downloaded in spite of the difference in the file names. But in the above case, I tried installing both and they both reported whats on their file names.

Simple07.

[tokyotea01]

VirtualBox software 5.1.14-112924-Debian running Insider Build 15014.rs-prerelease

Don't know if this will help anyone else, but I fixed my video driver problem -- could only run a max of 1400x1050 -- by doing a Reset of the Build 15014 installation. Lost a bunch of customization, but I have a 1920x1080 screen back. Settings -> Update & Security -> Recovery -> Reset this PC. You can decide to keep your files or erase everything and change your mind before you go ahead.

[squall leonhart]

The issue has been rooted out and a possible fix has been implemented in guest additions 5.1.x revision 113104 and is included as part of VirtualBox-5.1.15-113106 for Windows

15002 and 15007 were behaving better, but still not perfect. the same bsod was occuring at random.

Feedback is requested by Frank at https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/15973