Geomagic(CAD) in Windows 7 Video Issues

[tgarson]

I use Geomagic (formerly Alibre) parametric 3D CAD, a Windows application. It worked dandy on native XT as it currently does in native Win 7.

Originally, Alibre was written in Java, although Alibre always required DirectX.

When it was a Java app, it worked acceptably well in Windows XT running inside a several versions back VirtualBox, once DirectX 9 compatibility was achieved.

Back when Microsoft dumped Java, I believe the folks at Alibre (misguidedly as far as I'm concerned) followed Redmonds lead and ported the program to .Net.

Once the program was ported away from Java, it stopped working acceptably well in any Windows running inside of any version of VB.

Forward to the present. Geomagic, installed in Windows 7, running inside VB 5.1.6r110634, works and draws its graphics window perfectly. I can zoom and pan with more than acceptable redraw speed (can't see it happening) but If I rotate a part, motion is jumpy, sort of like Flash playing a web video poorly, rather than smooth. The entire VB screen intermittently goes blank for nearly a second each time as the part is rotated. Other apps that are at least a graphics intensive, even with animation, work just fine, so the problem isn't one of the VB video subsystem being too slow.

There are no errors and no crashing so I don't really know what info I can gather to help in solving this issue, but for me it's a major problem that I hope can be solved.

Thanks for any help provided.

Tom Garson

[socratis]

I deleted your other post from the "Linux Hosts" forum, as per your comments as well:

PS. I later realized this postr maay be in the wrong forum. I'll also post it in the Widows Guest area.

You seem to have been asking about this problem for a couple of years now:

• 2010-03-23: Altium requires DirectX Shader 3.0
• 2011-07-01: VB 4.0.10 r72479 3D Graphics fail catastrophically

The answer is pretty much the same now, as it was back then; Virtual machines will never be as powerful as the host, especially on the video side. They use after all a virtual graphics card, not your host's real graphics card. Applications that have high requirements on the GPU (drawing, 3D, games, video) are expected to not work as good as on the real hardware, if they work at all.

You only option is to pretty much wait for improved support. I have no clue if this will happen or when this will happen.

[tgarson]

Thanks for the response, and cleanup service |-).

I don't think the current problem is quite the same as with previous attempts.
Previously, VirtualBox was unable to support the video mode used by Geomagics predecessor, Alibre. Certain screens wouldn't draw at all or they were corrupt.
Once VirtualBox overcame the DirectX problems, those issues ceased.

In any case, this is not a video game. I'm not trying to blast monsters left right, up and down, all at once. Lightning fast video is not required. The issue isn't with video adapter performance.

With current VirtualBox, Geomagics initial drawing of the part is perfect and near enough to instantaneous that I can't perceive any lag. Pan (drag) works smoothly and zooms are equally fast. Rotating the part is where the problem arises, and that makes heavy use of a graphics engines calculating abilities, which must be incorporated in the VirtualBox Virtual Video Adapter capabilities or rotates would fail entirely.

I think, as I hinted in my first (most recent, anyway) post, the problem lies in .NET, which is an area that, like it or not, VirtualBox developers have to attend to because Microsoft will use any vehicle available to exploit a weakness in a competitors product. If MS can use .NET to break VirtualBox, they will. Prior to Alibre being ported to .NET, there was a brief period where it was actually usable in VirtualBox. A new host of issues (current ones) appeared after it was ported as a complete application from Java to .NET Framework (currently version 4), no doubt having had encouragement, blessing and "help" from MS developers.....

TG

[socratis]

I don't think the current problem is quite the same as with previous attempts.

With all due respect, it is; it's graphics, 3D graphics to be exact. It has nothing to do with speed, it has to do with API implementation and compliance. Solidworks for example (which I know of), doesn't run fast, but it runs the GPUs at its max, sometimes requiring specific high-end graphics cards with specific drivers that address specific problems with 3D. You actually (almost) pinpointed the problem yourself:

Rotating the part is where the problem arises, and that makes heavy use of a graphics engines calculating abilities, which must be incorporated in the VirtualBox Virtual Video Adapter capabilities or rotates would fail entirely.

Finally, I don't quite see the connection with .net and apps breaking/not working as expected, honestly I don't.

[tgarson]

I'm certainly not a Windows system programmer or video driver developer. My coding chops started with IBM 360 and ended with '386 system running DOS. I wrote mostly in Fortran and Pascal with a smattering of assembler when it was warranted.
When one thing changes and something breaks, I see a relationship. Since I don't have any experience with .NET, I certainly can't say from a position of authority that it's the source of these issues. There is only circumstantial evidence.

However, to say that a virtual environment can't get the job done with regards to my video experience. You are flat wrong there. I have Geomagic (same version) installed in a VMWare WS Pro 12.5 machine running on OpenSuse Linux under Win 7-64, exactly the same as with VB and there are no video bugs. No blinking of the entire VM window, no herky jerk rotation. All operations are smooth and with no perceptible lag. So, it IS not only possible, but being done. This, by the way, is in a desktop window. No video pass-through. Not even full screen mode.

If the VB development team wants to contact me about this, I would be happy to provide whatever debug info they would want (if they tell me how to obtain it) and perform testing. I'm no stranger to NDAs, either. I'm all for moving VB forward before it becomes irrelevant. We need options and I believe that VB is an important one.

TG

[socratis]

I can't speak for VMWare (or for VirtualBox for that matter), but my understanding is that VMWare is more geared towards consumer applications (including graphics). That's their customer base. That is not necessarily the case with VirtualBox, which is geared more towards enterprise customers with a different set of demands.

I never said it's not possible to run 3D apps virtualized or specifically your application. I said don't expect a smooth flight with the current status quo in VirtualBox. And you're right, .net has nothing to do with it. It's pure coincidence.

The developers know about their pros and cons, but feel free to head to the bugtracker and search for similar issues. You'll find plenty. There is no NDA required, since this is open-source.