Windows 11 discussion - fully supported by VirtualBox 7.0

[birdie]

A TPM device pass-through is being implemented: https://www.virtualbox.org/changeset/90946/vbox

In a perfect world, I'd like VBox to have its own implementation which would allow to run W11 on a host without TPM at all.

For new readers of this topic: VirtualBox 7.0 test builds (currently versioned 6.1.97) support and provide both TPM 2.0 and EFI Secure Boot, thus Windows 11 should install and work seamlessly in them. You can also use/pass-through your real physical TPM 2.0 device - for more info, check replies in the topic.

For Windows 11 to work under development snapshots you have to create a new VM with the Windows 11 version. Changing from another version of Windows to Windows 11 will not work.

VirtualBox 7.0 has not officially been released yet.

[mpack]

In a perfect world, I'd like VBox to have its own implementation which would allow to run W11 on a host without TPM at all.

Minor clarification for the benefit of future readers: TPM has been around a long time, but I'll assume that you mean TPM 2.0, which has only been around a few years and is what Win11 requires.

Anyway, a PC that doesn't have TPM 2.0 almost certainly doesn't have the modern CPU either (e.g. Intel 8th gen or later) . For now, as I understand things Win11 doesn't require either TPM or a modern CPU when running as a VM, but who knows how the requirements will be enforced in future.

[birdie]

In a perfect world, I'd like VBox to have its own implementation which would allow to run W11 on a host without TPM at all.

Minor clarification for the benefit of future readers: TPM has been around a long time, but I'll assume that you mean TPM 2.0, which has only been around a few years and is what Win11 requires.

Anyway, a PC that doesn't have TPM 2.0 almost certainly doesn't have the modern CPU either (e.g. Intel 8th gen or later) . For now, as I understand things Win11 doesn't require either TPM or a modern CPU when running as a VM, but who knows how the requirements will be enforced in future.

I don't know, people here beg to differ: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103828

[mpack]

people here beg to differ: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103828

Beg to differ on which point?

The only important post I see in that topic is the second one by BillG, and even that only confirms what we already knew, and does not conflict with anything said here.

[BillG]

There is no guarantee that Windows 11 will ever require TPM 2.0 in a vm, or that it will not. The only things I have seen from Microsoft on the matter note that exceptions will need to be made for Windows 11 in virtual machines. They do not state what these will be or what virtual machines they mean - for example do they only mean their own or all vms in general. They also do not state how this will be achieved.

I think it is far too early to be worrying about emulating TPM 2.0 in VirtualBox.

[birdie]

Guys, I don't understand what you're talking about.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/m ... albox-vms/

"This build includes a change that aligns the enforcement of the Windows 11 system requirements on Virtual Machines (VMs) to be the same as it is for physical PCs. Previously created VMs running Insider Preview builds may not update to the latest preview builds.

In Hyper-V, VMs need to be created as a Generation 2 VM. Running Windows 11 in VMs in other virtualization products from vendors such as VMware and Oracle will continue to work as long as the hardware requirements are met." - Microsoft.

[mpack]

Sorry, I don't parse the accuracy of offsite articles. I have enough on my plate keeping the info accurate around here, looking after the entire Internet would take too much of my time.

[birdie]

Sorry, I don't parse the accuracy of offsite articles. I have enough on my plate keeping the info accurate around here, looking after the entire Internet would take too much of my time.

All fine, cheer up.

[simondcoleman]

Yes, the MS announcement here: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insid ... ild-22458/

Win11 now enforces a check that the environment (even in virtual machines) supports TPM 2.0

So support for TPM2 (whether passthrough or virtual) will be required for win11 installation/upgrade.

(sadly my cpu doesn't make the win11 requirements list, so a little academic until my next hardware upgrade)

[fth0]

Well, did someone notice the small aspect that the author (Lawrence Abrams) didn't mention?

I don't say that it was deliberate. But the Microsoft source (see excerpt below) states that the change was made in the Dev Channel after its separation from the Beta Channel, and that it isn't part of the (first) Windows 11 release. To the casual reader, the article may give a wrong impression. Of course, we should expect this change coming in the future nonetheless.

Code: Select all   Expand viewCollapse view

Announcing Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22458
[...]
[REMINDER] Build numbers are higher in the Dev Channel than the Windows 11 preview builds in the Beta Channel because we’ve moved the Dev Channel back to receiving builds from our active development branch (RS_PRERELEASE). This means the builds released to the Dev Channel no longer match the Windows 11 experience that will be released to customers on October 5th.

[Grinler]

I am the author of that article

This new policy change is for both the beta (Windows 11 release channel) and the dev channel, so valid for all Windows 11 releases at the time.

Can't post the link, but it's in the latest Beta build 22000.194 as well.

[fth0]

This new policy change is for both the beta (Windows 11 release channel) and the dev channel, so valid for all Windows 11 releases at the time.

Thank you for the clarification (and no offense meant, of course ). Perhaps you can amend your well-written article to make it more clear, because other people following the "about-face" link and paying close attention to the details may come to the same (wrong) conclusion like me. Best regards, fth0.

[BillG]

I am the author of that article

This new policy change is for both the beta (Windows 11 release channel) and the dev channel, so valid for all Windows 11 releases at the time.

Can't post the link, but it's in the latest Beta build 22000.194 as well.

Are you sure? My Win 11 vm is running that version without any problems.

Win11vm.png (60.2 KiB) Viewed 53202 times

[fth0]

My Win 11 vm is running that version without any problems.

Did you install that version afresh? AFAIR, the prerequisites are only checked during setup.

[Grinler]

[
Are you sure? My Win 11 vm is running that version without any problems.

Only tested the dev version, but Microsoft claims the change was added to the beta builds too:

https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insid ... 22000-194/

This build includes a change that aligns the enforcement of the Windows 11 system requirements on Virtual Machines (VMs) to be the same as it is for physical PCs. Previously created VMs running Insider Preview builds may not update to the latest preview builds. In Hyper-V, VMs need to be created as a Generation 2 VM. Running Windows 11 in VMs in other virtualization products from vendors such as VMware and Oracle will continue to work as long as the hardware requirements are met. For more details on the Windows 11 system requirements – see this blog post here.