Win 11 update!

Discussions about using Windows guests in VirtualBox.
fth0
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by fth0 »

mpack wrote:I didn't get the impression that Bill was referring to how RAM is allocated on the host, only on how much the guest OS actually uses (or needs).
BillG was replying to the posting of kado897 above it, which seems to talk about the necessary host RAM. Or would you interpret that differently, too?
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by mpack »

If you mean that Bill seems to be referring to the post by Kado then yes, I think we differ on that meaning too.

All Kado said is that a Win11 VM can run in 2GB. I've not checked, but it wouldn't surprise me. My interpretation of Bill's comment was that, essentially: that may be true (in Kado's case study) but don't count on it.

Maybe your interpretation of Bill's comment is correct, only Bill can clarify!
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by BillG »

Sorry if my post caused confusion. All I meant was that, having changed the memory setting to 4 GB so that you can install Windows 11, changing it back to 2 GB later (because that is all it seems to need) does not really gain anything for you. It does not save you anything and may come back to bite you if some program you run needs a bit extra. Might as well leave it as it is.

I agree with Don (mpack). I think Microsoft simply does not want people to run Windows on PCs with less than 4 GB RAM. I certainly would not recommend it either.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by fth0 »

BillG wrote:Sorry if my post caused confusion.
No problem. We're all trying to find the truth after all. :)

@BillG, @mpack:
I agree with both of you that it's preferable to provide 4 GB to a Windows 11 VM, even when it only needs approximately 2 GB to run, and I would recommend to provide 4 GB, too. But:
kado897 wrote:If you are short of memory to allocate permanently [...]
BillG wrote:Changing the nominal size of the memory doesn't change the amount of storage it actually uses [...]
I'm interpreting the "memory to be short of" and the "memory actually being used" to refer to the memory of the host OS. And AFAIU the VirtualBox memory management and the Windows memory management, the Windows guest OS touching all provided memory (e.g. 4 GB) during startup leads to all provided memory (e.g. 4 GB) "taken away" from the host OS, independently of how much of this memory (e.g. 2 GB) is later on used by the Windows guest OS.

I thought that other readers too might interpret BillG's comment to disagree with kado897's comment in regard to host OS memory shortage, that's what made me start commenting. Please let me know your thoughts.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by BillG »

That is certainly true. If you allocate 4 GB to the vm, you lose that 4 GB from the RAM available to the host. ON the other hand, if you reduce it, you run the risk of limiting what you can do in the guest. It is a balancing act you have the do if you are short of memory. 8 GB on RAM in the host is a tight fit for a Windows 11 vm, as shown by this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103330
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by mb00 »

The preview doesn't require all requirements from Win11! But they will not distribute it all at the same time!
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mpack
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by mpack »

A quick note about something I discovered last night in a YouTube video. It appears that you can install Win11 on a Raspberry Pi. It is less than amusing that a lightweight ARM based maker board meets the spec for Win11, while my i7-6700 desktop host does not! :roll:
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by multiOS »

It appears that Microsoft has decided that the CPU requirement for Windows 11 should be nothing to do with CPU 'power' but a 'simplified' generational decision, as the basic requirement for Intel processors is an 8th Generation Intel Core and above (with separate limitations also placed on AMD processor compatibility), which for example excludes many of Microsoft's own 'not so old' product lines from compatibility.

Can't see organisations/businesses rushing to adopt Windows 11 if it means replacing a substantial proportion of their hardware, but no doubt PC manufacturers and retailers will be happy with the increased minimum specs :!:
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by mpack »

multiOS wrote: Can't see organisations/businesses rushing to adopt Windows 11 if it means replacing a substantial proportion of their hardware
Not just organizations. For the last couple of years I have been collecting micro form factor PCs (150mm square and below) to act as my "mini server farm" to run Handbrake and any other compute heavy tasks that I need done without tying up my main PC. I've got them all talking to each other on a home Ethernet network, and they all run Win10 (except for one RPi4 running Pi-Hole). These mini PCs were specifically bought second hand for cost reasons, mostly 4th gen i7 quads and one i5 dual. They run Win10 because I stupidly took MS's word that the days of forcing mainly OS fashion upgrades on me every two years was history, so this rig would have long term stability.

There's no way I'm starting from scratch with new hardware when the old hardware is fully capable of what I need. If they pull their usual stunts to force me to move then I'll be moving to Manjaro instead (I checked: Handbrake apparantly runs on Manjaro). In fact I'm thinking of doing this right away: it would relieve me of the weekly burden of nursing them all through Windows unreliable updates.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Post by mpack »

Another subtlety I just noticed: Windows 11 will be the first consumer Windows version which is only available in a 64-bit edition (*). That implies a final goodbye to NTVDM, the backwards compatibility layer that lets you run DOS and Win16 apps on Windows, since NTVDM was only ever available on 32bit Windows. In future VirtualBox (and similar apps not including Hyper-v!) will be the only option for doing that.

(*) Mind you, the same announcement was made on release of Windows 10, and MS later backtracked. However I have a feeling they may mean it this time.
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