Win 11 update!

Discussions about using Windows guests in VirtualBox.

Win 11 update!

Postby Jazz1 » 30. Jun 2021, 03:36

Just received the Win11 update via insider program on a VBox guest so I am guessing Vbox has a TPM or one is not needed.
Installed like a normal update without any issues or input other than a reboot.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby nuoyaxin » 30. Jun 2021, 04:50

I have just tried to update to Win 11 but the Insider Program tells me "Your PC does not meet the minimum hardware requirements for Windows 11. Your channel options will be limited." They have therefore put me in the Release Preview Channel which h is not eligible for Windows 11 Preview Builds.

I am using VirtualBox Version 6.1.22 r144080 (Qt5.6.3) on macOS Big Sur version 11.4 (20F71).
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby mpack » 30. Jun 2021, 10:47

I guess that for beta builds they don't want a flood of user reports from outlier cases, so the official hardware requirements will be strictly applied for previews. The RC requirements will apparently be more relaxed.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby kado897 » 30. Jun 2021, 13:59

They say not, that the Dev channel is relaxing requirements which will be enforced at RTM. Those requirements include TPM 2, UEFI boot, secure boot, DirectX 12, WDDM 2, GPT OS partitions, 4GB RAM, 64GB of disk space, and at least an 8th Gen Intel or equivalent CPU. Many of those requirements VB cannot meet atm so although we can create Win 11 VMs now comes release date we will be stuffed.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby mpack » 30. Jun 2021, 14:25

Now we seem to repeating conversations I already had here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91277. Please check that link, since I don't really care to have duplicate conversations going.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby kado897 » 30. Jun 2021, 14:52

Not really, this is a much wider problem than TPM. It is about making sure that VB can run the most recent version of Windows.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby mpack » 30. Jun 2021, 15:38

For the moment, VirtualBox does not make any claims regarding Win11 as either host or guest.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby Jazz1 » 1. Jul 2021, 07:29

Just posted this to let you know what my experience was/is.
I did not make any changes to my settings.
Win11 installed as normal insider update to my Win guest. 4gb ram, 64 gb hd, no EFI, PIX3 chipset, 2 cpu's.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby BillG » 1. Jul 2021, 12:12

Yes. It does not seem to worry about UEFI or TPM, but it does enforce 4 GB of RAM (I forgot to change it and got an error message and abort during download).

11on11.PNG
11on11.PNG (32.13 KiB) Viewed 4207 times


Windows 11 vm on Windows 11 host.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby Merlin1951 » 2. Jul 2021, 15:47

BillG wrote:Yes. It does not seem to worry about UEFI or TPM, but it does enforce 4 GB of RAM (I forgot to change it and got an error message and abort during download).


Apparently that is not the case. When I run the PC Health Check on my actual hardware I pass the test and am deemed Windows 11 ready. However, when I run my Windows Insider build within VirtualBox I'm told my system does not support TPM or Secure Boot. When I run the Security Processor check nothing appears at all. These two items' information are apparently not passed from the Host to the Client via VirtualBox and there doesn't appear to be any settings within VirtualBox to turn on any vTPM or vSecure Boot for the virtual Insider Preview machine.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby mpack » 2. Jul 2021, 15:55

Merlin1951 wrote:However, when I run my Windows Insider build within VirtualBox I'm told my system does not support TPM or Secure Boot.

That's a statement of fact, nobody disputes it. But did the tool specifically say that this was a reason for not installing Win11?
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby kado897 » 5. Jul 2021, 15:34

If you are short of memory to allocate permanently you can reduce it back to 2GB after the install and it runs just fine.
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby BillG » 6. Jul 2021, 02:09

All that means is that it really only needs 2GB in your case study. That is about what mine uses too. If you left the allocation at 4GB, it would still only use that amount. Changing the nominal size of the memory doesn't change the amount of storage it actually uses - it uses what it needs (up to the maximum you set).
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby fth0 » 6. Jul 2021, 12:51

BillG wrote:Changing the nominal size of the memory doesn't change the amount of storage it actually uses

Are you sure about that? I think that the Windows guest OS touches all memory provided during startup, thereby leading to its allocation on the host.

For example, starting a Windows guest and a Linux guest with 8 GB of memory each, and shutting them down shortly afterwards, lead to the following VirtualBox memory statistics (4k pages):
VBox.log file of a Windows VM with 8 GB RAM wrote:
00:02:32.939025 /GMM/VM/Allocated/cBasePages      2097221 pages
00:02:32.939055 /GMM/VM/Reserved/cBasePages 2097310 pages
00:02:32.941854 /PGM/Page/cAllPages 2164316 count
00:02:32.941919 /PGM/Page/cPrivatePages 2164203 count
00:02:32.941953 /PGM/Page/cZeroPages 57 count

VBox.log file of a Linux VM with 8 GB RAM wrote:
00:01:01.615003 /GMM/VM/Allocated/cBasePages       401477 pages
00:01:01.615023 /GMM/VM/Reserved/cBasePages 2097310 pages
00:01:01.617064 /PGM/Page/cAllPages 2131638 count
00:01:01.617108 /PGM/Page/cPrivatePages 435689 count
00:01:01.617145 /PGM/Page/cZeroPages 1695801 count
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Re: Win 11 update!

Postby mpack » 6. Jul 2021, 14:12

fth0 wrote:
BillG wrote:Changing the nominal size of the memory doesn't change the amount of storage it actually uses

Are you sure about that? I think that the Windows guest OS touches all memory provided during startup, thereby leading to its allocation on the host.

I didn't get the impression that Bill was referring to how RAM is allocated on the host, only on how much the guest OS actually uses (or needs). If you change it to 2GB then it can only use 2GB, and that will only be a problem if it actually needs more.

For me there are more practical considerations...

First I don't really see much point in creating a 64bit VM if I then give it less than 4GB, so for me that discussion is academic (yes, I agree there are valid reasons for doing this).

Also, if Win11 is officially specced for 4GB min then it would be within its rights to crash if you gave it anything less, plus MS Win11 discussion forums will be within their rights to give you the bums rush when you report a problem.

Microsoft have a long history of doing this: set a high mark for the hardware requirements for a new release of Windows, everybody bitches about it, but within a year or 18 months the spec is seen as normal, if not even a little tame. Come to think of it, they gave up this driving power when they switched to "Windows as a service", so maybe that's part of the reason for the switch back.
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