Will XP Mode be supported?

[fsr3791]

Scott Woodgate, director of Desktop Virtualization at Microsoft, told me last August that makers of other virtualization software can make “specific implementations” that will allow Windows XP Mode to run under their platform. So far, I am unaware of any companies that have announced their intentions to do so, but they have that option.

Ed Bott, http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1461

This could be a nice new feature... althoug im not sure how licencing will be done. XP Mode will be available for download and install as a VHD that needs hardware virtualization support - for the moment it can run only on Windows 7 Virtual PC.

[kebabbert]

I think that XP mode, requires virtualization inside virtualization. This is not allowed on VB. You can not install VMware in VB, for instance. Nor Xp mode. I think.

[fsr3791]

Hello kebabbert,

I knew there where some questions about XP thats why i posted zdnet link. XP Mode will be available as a downloadable VHD that contains a pre-licenced XP SP3, so in theory you can run it as any other VHD, VMDK or VDI with AMD-V or Intel-VT support. But for the moment only Windows 7 Virtual PC (not to be confused with Virtual PC 2007) supports it.

[Perryg]

VBox does support VHD but the problem will be activation. Unless you get an activation key to type in you can not activate the copy of Windows XP.
They have set it up to not force re-activation if you run it in VPC, but the minute you run it in VBox it sees a hardware change and.... well there you have it.

[fsr3791]

VBox does support VHD but the problem will be activation. Unless you get an activation key to type in you can not activate the copy of Windows XP.
They have set it up to not force re-activation if you run it in VPC, but the minute you run it in VBox it sees a hardware change and.... well there you have it.

LOL i knew this was too good to be true!!! Thanks Perryg

[Shaun]

As you can see from their webpage, this application (still in development) installs VirtualBox OSE along with a pre-activated XP Mode virtual machine. Very slick. I'm not able to say too much about this application's strengths/weaknesses, other than I beta tested it for them and it works quite well (fast and stable, and in ways better than Microsoft's VPC solution).
http://www.vmlite.com/

In general (apart from licensing), the main thing Microsoft's XP Mode virtual machine provides you is access to published applications via RPC 6.1+ and automatic creation of application shortcuts in your host's Start menu. That's fine if you just want to manually launch the application, but in many cases one also needs file type association. That can be done, but normally requires some additional effort and as such many "average" users will find it of limited use.

One thing Microsoft did which makes their XP Mode better than VB seamless mode is to merge the guest notification (system tray) icons into the host's notification area. Linux users probably would like to have separate taskbars, but many Windows users get "confused" by or find the dual taskbars annoying.

XP Mode's use to RPC 6.1 leverages some slick technology that makes it possible to blend a host and guest in ways that have not been previously possible. I think in 2010 people will see (and appreciate) the technology get perfected.

-Shaun

[CJ]

XP Mode will be available as a downloadable VHD

I think there's a bit of confusion as to what XP Mode is. It is not a downloadable VHD. AFAICT, there's absolutely nothing special about the download VHD. It's just a garden-variety XP VM, not a whit different than a dozen XP others I've had lying around my desk for years. (Does that mean I can use any XP VM with XP Mode? I haven't tried).

Running the VHD under VirtualBox (and it runs just fine) does not mean you're running XP Mode. XP Mode includes all the RPC 6.1 technology Shaun talked about, allowing the apps running within the XP VM to be seamlessly integrated into the host environment. That's the revolutionary part, and VirtualBox doesn't do that.

The problem is you can't run XP Mode and VirtualBox concurrently, because they both want to be hypervisor. Unfortunately, VPC only supports a subset of MS OSes, which means I can't run my Ubuntu, Solaris, Win9x or DOS VMs unless I first close any XPM apps I've got running. I think it would be absolutely stunning if VirtualBox were to come out with support for RPC 6.1, extend that to all VBox-supported OSes (imagine Linux, Solaris, and OS/2 apps running side-by-side seamlessly on your Win7 desktop), and then leverage the same technology to other host OSes.

With that VirtualBox as hypervisor, just drop an XP VM onto an Ubuntu host for instant 100% Windows compatibility -- no more WINE. Or toss an Ubuntu VM onto a Windows 7 machine for instant Linux compatibility. Throw both onto an OS/2 host, and suddenly OS/2 Warp can run anything under the sun. Finally, true OS-agnosticism.

Oops -- I'm drooling on my keyboard again

Nathanael

[fsr3791]

Thanks guys,

I was actually quoting Ed Bott on VHD, but i believe he wasn't very far from the truth

This feature, available in Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise, provides a licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3

3 simple (simple to ask ) questions:

• is XP Mode any better than regular XP virtual machine, aside from refered seamless mode and tray notifications? (i don't understand what you are saying about RPCs, and yeah, i also know it's easier and faster to install - i see this as a rebranded Virtual Appliance, remember them?)
• is there an advantage on VMLite XP Mode over XP Mode aside from the hardware virtualization not being needed?
• can anyone confirm VMLite XP Mode installs pre-activated XP Mode virtual machine? (this is important, if this is legal maybe Sun will support it )

[fsr3791]

Infos regarding VMLite XP Mode sources:

This is the first form of the VMLite XP Mode Setup Wizard. Here you need to specify the source from which to create the XP Mode virtual machine.

There are three types of sources:

• Specify the folder of the package if already installed. If the folder can be automatically determined, it will be filled in.

On Windows 7, if you have already installed Microsoft Windows XP Mode package, then you can use this method. Typically, Windows XP Mode package will be installed in c:\program files\Windows XP Mode. The wizard tries to automatically determine this folder. If this folder is present, it's recommended that you always select this option.

• Specify the path of the XP mode package or a virtual disk file.

Choose this option if you have an existing virtual disk file, or if you have downloaded the Microsoft XP Mode self extracting package. VMDK, VHD, VDI and HDD formats are supported.

• Download from the Internet.

This option is enabled only if your host is eligible for Microsoft Windows XP Mode, namely, if your host operating system is Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate. In all other cases, this option will be disabled, and you won't be able to use this. In the case that this option is enabled, you can proceed to download the package after selecting the appropriate language. The download actually goes to Microsoft Virtual PC home page.

Button is greyed on my XP alright, and no pre-activated XP Mode is available on HDD after installation... so outside 7 Virtual PC you will need to activate XP Mode like Perryg suggested.

[Technologov]

For XP Mode to work in VBox Guest please see:
http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/4032

For XP Mode to work on VBox Host please see:
http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/5559

*Theoretically* it may be possible, but hard to achieve.

Even better would be to see VirtualBox improves it's seamless mode to the next level, to match "XP mode" integration. But it is not easy, especially on Linux hosts, where GNOME and KDE have different standards for system tray notifications and different menu standards.

-Technologov

[CJ]

This feature, available in Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise, provides a licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3

3 simple (simple to ask ) questions:

is XP Mode any better than regular XP virtual machine[/b], aside from refered seamless mode and tray notifications? (i don't understand what you are saying about RPCs, and yeah, i also know it's easier and faster to install - i see this as a rebranded Virtual Appliance, remember them?)

No, aside from XP Mode's "seamless mode" (NOT to be confused with VirtualBox's "seamless mode"; the two are distinctly different), there's little different between Win7's XPM and standard XP virtual appliance. However, it's XPM's "seamless mode" which IS the big deal, AFAIC.

RPC (or "RemoteApp") is Microsoft's remote protocol, which allows Windows apps to be served out to remote terminals; i.e., a program runs on one computer, but all of its output display is sent to another computer. In this case, Microsoft simply applies the technology in a VM setting: the XPM VHD you download is configured with RPC 6.1 support and acts as the application server to the host's OS's (i.e., Win7) desktop, which is the application client. Thus, an app runs in the XP VM, but its output is sent, via RPC, to the host desktop.

The result is that the application appears to the user to be running directly in Windows 7.

There are two "big deals" here: the first is technical, viz. future Windows development. The big albatross around Microsoft's neck viz., Windows development has always been the dead weight of "legacy support". Windows 95 was such a gawdawfully unstable platform primarily because MS tried to make it fully backward compatible with DOS and Win3x apps. XP managed better stability, but at some cost to backward compatibility. XP Mode simultaneously provides 100% backward compatibility and forever relieves MS of the burden of having to support legacy apps. It's a pretty brilliant move on MS's part, I think.

For the rest of us, the advantage is an IT department can set up XPMode on all the secretaries' machines to run those old-but-mission-critical apps, and the secretaries won't have any clue the apps aren't running natively. No messing about with training your secretary to launch a VM, or dealing with her confusion over what to do with a virtualized XP.

The thing is, VirtualBox already supports RPC (though I don't know if that includes the latest 6.1). Potentially, at least, then, full XP Mode support shouldn't be much of a stretch for VB. But I'm no technical guru. Maybe someone who is can shed some light on this for us.

is there an advantage on VMLite XP Mode over XP Mode[/b] aside from the hardware virtualization not being needed?

The VMLite website claims VMLite bypasses RPC in favor of a different method for remoting apps, which the VMLite site claims is significantly faster. I haven't played with VMLite myself, so I can't tell you how well it works. However, the fact that VM Lite is just a fork of VB tells me that XPM-support in VB is possible.

can anyone confirm VMLite XP Mode installs pre-activated XP Mode virtual machine?)

The VMLite installation instructions say that if you've already installed XP Mode, you can just point VMLite to the installed image and it'll work. I suspect this means yes, but again, I haven't played with it myself. Why don't you try? VMLite has a trial version available for download.

CJ

[popej]

VMlite can download, setup and activate VM with XP mode. It's up to user to check validity of the license, VMlite will run XP mode even on Vista or XP host.

VMware Player/Workstation behaves differently. It will create, activate and run VM with XP mode only on right Windows-7 version.

[Technologov]

VMlite is different, it is not XP mode

[MarkCranness]

A week or so ago, I read a comment on a Microsoft blog (IIRC) that said something like:

The pre-activated XP Mode VHD can also run on other virtualisation products, if that virtualisation product has been updated...

Try as a might I can't re-find that blog, but it did infer that all Sun (or anyone else) had to do was ask MS how the activation was done, and then activation problems for XP Mode would disappear (presumably when run on a correctly licensed host), just as popej says VMware Player/Workstation does.

Note: XP Mode activation != XP Mode RDP 6.1 seamless

[MarkCranness]

VMlite is different, it is not XP mode

From what I read, 'VMlite is not XP Mode' in name only, but has all the same features as XP Mode: Pre-activation, XP Mode RDP 6.1 seamless.