Discuss VirtualBox 3.1.0 release

[Technologov]

What do you think of this new release ? (3.1.0)

In my opinion, the "killer feature" is the "Branched Snapshots". Very useful thing -- it is basically a time machine where you can go back and forth and to parallel worlds (parallel branches) in VM.

Also, IIRC, this release is the most innovative one, i.e. it has the biggest amount of new major features of any VirtualBox release, yet.

Share your opinions !

-Technologov

[SSCBrian]

Sounds great, feature list looks awesome, etc. Unfortunately, I'm finding Solaris (10U8) and Linux (openSUSE 11.2 & Fedora) to be problems. Linux randomly locks up and Solaris has weird app crashing/logout things going on. Host is Vista x64.

[AntiMatter]

Amongst the new features. Can anyone elaborate on this item?
Significant performance improvements for PAE and AMD64 guests (VT-x and AMD-V only; normal (non-nested) paging)

More exactly, can it be quantified (even an estimate range would be helpful)? Beside a compatible CPU, are there any particular conditions on the host and guest to take the maximum benefits of this performance improvement?

[ecterrab]

I noticed that in VB 3.1.0 the macosx dock and top menu bar, that would appear when hovering the mouse close to top of the screen in fullscreen mode, do not appear anymore. I read in the changelog that this is a "fix" to bug #4866. But in that bug report, what is requested is only an option to not autoshow the macosx menubar. What is provided in 3.1.0, instead, is not an option: the macosx dock and menubar are not displayed anymore in full screen and apparently there is no way to make them visible again, as in VB before 3.1.0.

Although some people may prefer to work that way, for people that are mac and use VB heavily with a guest for working purposes, the new design is inconvenient: it makes the guest be less integrated to the host. Before 3.1.0, we were able to just hover the top to automatically see the macosx menubar with it all the macosx menulets and dock, no need to touch the keybord for that, nor to hide them after giving a rapid look at the dock - and in that way have instant and direct access to the specific macosx applications that we use all the time (via the menulets - you can put any application there using e.g. buttler) as well as instantly see whether we have mail and etc. useful info that mac conveys through the dock. And all that without having to switch guest -> host -> guest using the keyboard. In brief: this "auto show the menubar and dock in fullscreen" is with no doubt one of the most appreciated features of VB (for many of mac & VB users like me at least), especially when comparing VB with VMWare and Parallels.

It would be great if this "auto show the menubar and dock in fullscreen" is offered again as an option. In this way everybody will be happy, including all of us that prefer a more friendly and fast integration Host <-> Guest (in the sense explained above) instead of a bit more of screen display. In some sense it appears to me that this is the same design issue of the mac-dock or windows-taskbar, note that both provide auto-hide as an option.

The expectation is also big regarding the video acceleration improvements (2D video acceleration for windows guests in this VB version) but in 3.1.0 it is still not possible to see 'topsites' in safari (it crashes when attempting to display topsites after enabling experimental DirectX, 3D and 2D accelerations). This is relevant for people working with a macosx host: we tend to use the same browser on the host and guest, but it doesn't work well in the guest because of the current video limitations.

For us working every day with a mac host and a guest OS within VB there is also expectation regarding nested paging that it seems to be not working also in 3.1.0 (I know it works in other hosts but not in a mac). On the other hand, I am very happy that the bug that prevented the use of VB with macosx in 64 it mode (VB was interpreting mouse wheel events as left click events) got fixed. I work with mathematics and physics using the Maplesoft software and working in 64 bit mode results in a noticeable speed up.

[Technologov]

ecterrab: I opened a new wish in the beta section for you.
http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25345

ecterrab: What exactly crashes ? Winodws guest when running Safari for Windows with 2D acceleration ? Please make it clear.

ecterrab: What is your overall impression of VirtualBox (3.0 and 3.1) look-and-feel compared to Mac native application ?
(I do have Mac host, but I am not Mac user, so I may judge, erroneously, according to Windows standards)

BTW: VirtualBox on Windows host works about 95% correctly, according to Windows standards. (lacking some WHQL driver signing and certifications, and some Vista-native buttons in few dialogs)

[Sasquatch]

The reason the top bar is no longer showing is because VB now acts like a normal full screen application. When you watch a video in full screen, do you have the option to show the top bar or not? I don't think so. Users always have something to complain about. First it's the bar in the way and they want it gone, now that it's gone, they want it back. Make up your mind already! It's these Mac users that give me a totally wrong idea about the general Mac user (way too arrogant IMO).

[smartysmart34]

[quote="Sasquatch"]The reason the top bar is no longer showing is because VB now acts like a normal full screen application. When you watch a video in full screen, do you have the option to show the top bar or not? I don't think so. [/quote]

What the heck is going on?
If someone requests the dock to be OPTIONAL - give the option to show or not to show - what is the meaning behind removing it permanently? I just don't get it.

Let's take a look at other Fullscreen Applications:
When watching Videos under windows - as soon as i move the mouse I get a small menu. Not exactly when moving to the top or bottom border, but you sure get the idea.
Same behaviour when watching images under Linux with gwenview. As soon as the mouse moves: Top icon bar is visible. OK, not just exactly when moving to the top, but the concept matches.
Windows RDP: You can remove the little pin in the small top header and it disappears. Shows again when mouse is near the top border
vnc: Same as rdp.

Sorry, but sometimes the Virtualbox-people seem a bit arrogant to me.

regards,
Martin

[Technologov]

Well, yes, i think it should become optional.

[Sasquatch]

The reason the top bar is no longer showing is because VB now acts like a normal full screen application. When you watch a video in full screen, do you have the option to show the top bar or not? I don't think so.

What the heck is going on?
If someone requests the dock to be OPTIONAL - give the option to show or not to show - what is the meaning behind removing it permanently? I just don't get it.

Let's take a look at other Fullscreen Applications:
When watching Videos under windows - as soon as i move the mouse I get a small menu. Not exactly when moving to the top or bottom border, but you sure get the idea.
Same behaviour when watching images under Linux with gwenview. As soon as the mouse moves: Top icon bar is visible. OK, not just exactly when moving to the top, but the concept matches.
Windows RDP: You can remove the little pin in the small top header and it disappears. Shows again when mouse is near the top border
vnc: Same as rdp.



regards,
Martin

Those things you mention are part of the PROGRAM, not the OS. VB already provides a similar bar to exit fullscreen. On Linux, do you see your panels when you have an app in full screen? On Windows, do you see your taskbar when you have an app in full screen? Any way to make it appear, without directly calling for it? Not even the autohide function makes it appear when you move the mouse to the designated space.

Sorry, but sometimes the Virtualbox-people seem a bit arrogant to me.

I get the same for Mac users. And people that don't want to listen to others and therefore are too stubborn to accept things.

[Technologov]

Sas: Mac users, in VBox 3.0.x got an extra feature not available on other hosts. (Auto show/Auto hide of host OS panels).

I am fully aware, that they (Mac users) got this "feature" by mistake (by bug), not on purpose, but if this feature is useful to some people, maybe it makes sense to add it on all platforms, instead of removing it on the Mac Hosts. After all science is trial-n-error.

-Technologov

[Sasquatch]

True, but keep in mind, as you can see in the bug ticket, that they didn't like the panel to show up every time. So the devs decided to exclude it entirely, and behave like a normal full screen application should behave. You have a Mac, so you should also have Mac OS X. Do you see, or otherwise able to, the top panel when you watch a video in full screen? I'm sure you don't, as it's the proper behaviour.

[Technologov]

If some users like want it, this feature may be useful. (if optional). Reverting VBox behavior back and adding an checkbox option shouldn't be too time consuming for developers.

[rpmurray]

True, but keep in mind, as you can see in the bug ticket, that they didn't like the panel to show up every time. So the devs decided to exclude it entirely, and behave like a normal full screen application should behave. You have a Mac, so you should also have Mac OS X. Do you see, or otherwise able to, the top panel when you watch a video in full screen? I'm sure you don't, as it's the proper behaviour.

I'm kind of concerned about the use of the word "they" as if that applied to ALL Mac users. SOME Mac users wanted the menu and dock not to show up. SOME Mac users requested that this be made optional. NOBODY said to permanently remove it for ALL Mac users.

So if SOME Windows/Linux bigots don't like it and want to lump ALL Mac users into a single group, they should stop moderating the Mac forums, and stick to something they know about.

[Sasquatch]

I'm of course referring to those specific users with 'they'.

[poetzsch]

I decided to remove this behavior 1) because it is not the same as on other hosts we support 2) because that bar may be useful for other applications, but for an application which shows another OS in a window which them self may have toolbars on top (with an auto hide option) the menu is most of the time in the way 3) the implementation of Qt was wrong (it shows also the Dock) 4) we got several reports that this is a strange behavior.

Please let us be more political correct. I didn't expect that so many people will miss that functionality so I decided against an extra option. Also we try to limit the things a user could configure to the absolute necessary to let the GUI be as simple as possible. Also note, as pointed out by others, that there is a VBox toolbar which allows you to switch to window mode or add devices (beside that there is HOST+Home for getting a context menu with this functions). So should the old behavior really come back?